All-Star Worlds 2017 Day 3 Updates

[UCFKnights07]

I thought this might be the case, just need to decide how desperate I am to watch!

you can find quite a few videos on youtube as well.

 

[Official OWECheer]

CF threw a baby straight ride from a basket grip with no backspot and the AF from the athlete collapsing was removed because the collapse was do to injury. But the AFs other teams got that were because of injuries didn't get removed when they went again.
CF won over OO5 by less than a point if I remember right and they had no deductions.

Edit: And this was after they were so stingy with legality deductions in SS that cost teams globes.

Edit2: Did we ever find out why it wasn't a deduction? Like was there ever an official reason?

I totally believe you on all of this; just wanted to know if you know of any sources that I could screenshot or link for a video?

 

[Ashley]

I totally believe you on all of this; just wanted to know if you know of any sources that I could screenshot or link for a video?

Also I'm curious if this happened before or after the part of the routine where the injury took place the first time around.

If it happened before the tumbling, then it shouldn't be a deduction since you're not judged on anything that happens before the injury the second time you go.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Also I'm curious if this happened before or after the part of the routine where the injury took place the first time around.

If it happened before the tumbling, then it shouldn't be a deduction since you're not judged on anything that happens before the injury the second time you go.

The basket was after tumbling, almost the very end of the routine.
ETA: Here's a video, around 2:10 is the basket

 

[Official OWECheer]

The basket was after tumbling, almost the very end of the routine.
ETA: Here's a video, around 2:10 is the basket

Thanks!

 

[AndyT_T]

I totally believe you on all of this; just wanted to know if you know of any sources that I could screenshot or link for a video?

Also I'm curious if this happened before or after the part of the routine where the injury took place the first time around.

If it happened before the tumbling, then it shouldn't be a deduction since you're not judged on anything that happens before the injury the second time you go.

Heres the video I posted on twitter. It happened after the injury from the first performance. A CF Ninfinity athlete tweeted at me and said a release move could go 18 inches above the hands, but that is assuming the release move has a spotter, and AFAIK you can't be a spotter if both hands are on feet. So, that means this is a stunt with two bases and no spotter which means it can't release/be thrown right? Plus I thought it coming from a basket grip and landing in cradle meant it would be considered a toss, right?

I honestly just want to know how it was ruled as legal. Like I want someone to explain it to me in a way that makes sense with what is in the rule book, because I just don't see it.

From USASF's rule book:
"Spotter:
- may not have both hands under the sole of the top person’s foot/feet or under the hands of the bases.
- may not be considered both a base and the required spotter at the same time. If there is only one person under a top person's foot, regardless of hand placement, that person is considered a base.

Basket Toss:
A toss involving 2 or 3 bases and a spotter -- 2 of the bases use their hands to interlock wrists.

Toss:
An airborne stunt where base(s) execute a throwing motion initiated from waist level to increase the height of the top person. The top person becomes free from all contact of bases, bracers and/or other top persons. The top person is free from performing surface when toss is initiated (ex: basket toss or sponge toss). Note: Toss to hands, toss to extended stunts and toss chair are NOT included in this category. (See Release Moves)."

 

[FloridaFlya]

Heres the video I posted on twitter. It happened after the injury from the first performance. A CF Ninfinity athlete tweeted at me and said a release move could go 18 inches above the hands, but that is assuming the release move has a spotter, and AFAIK you can't be a spotter if both hands are on feet. So, that means this is a stunt with two bases and no spotter which means it can't release/be thrown right? Plus I thought it coming from a basket grip and landing in cradle meant it would be considered a toss, right?

I honestly just want to know how it was ruled as legal. Like I want someone to explain it to me in a way that makes sense with what is in the rule book, because I just don't see it.

I don't think I'm much help here but isn't there a well known worlds team that does the kick double dismount with only 2 bases? Wouldn't that almost be considered a release move? Or just a dismount?

 

[luv2cheer92]

I don't think I'm much help here but isn't there a well known worlds team that does the kick double dismount with only 2 bases? Wouldn't that almost be considered a release move? Or just a dismount?

Typically when that is done it is technically one base and a spotter under the stunt, not 2 bases. In order for a stunt to be extended or cradled, one of them has to be a spotter (has one hand on an ankle/base's wrist). In this case, both of the bases have the basket grip, therefore there are 2 bases and no spotter. That's the biggest difference here.

 

[BlueCat]

Heres the video I posted on twitter. It happened after the injury from the first performance. A CF Ninfinity athlete tweeted at me and said a release move could go 18 inches above the hands, but that is assuming the release move has a spotter, and AFAIK you can't be a spotter if both hands are on feet. So, that means this is a stunt with two bases and no spotter which means it can't release/be thrown right? Plus I thought it coming from a basket grip and landing in cradle meant it would be considered a toss, right?

I honestly just want to know how it was ruled as legal. Like I want someone to explain it to me in a way that makes sense with what is in the rule book, because I just don't see it.

I don't know what logic they actually used, but this is the closest I can figure out:

Assuming they saw/caught it (which isn't a given) - It fits the definition of a release move, toss, AND basket toss.

Glossary: Release Move:

When the top person becomes free of contact with all people on the performing surface; see “Free Release Move”

Under "release moves" in L5 rules.

1. Release moves are allowed but must not exceed more than eighteen inches above extended arm level. Clarification: If the release move exceeds more than 18 inches above the bases’ extended arm level, it will be considered a toss and/or dismount, and must follow the appropriate “Toss” and/or “Dismount” rules.

Regardless of what the "toss" requirements are, it has been expressly allowed because of the above. It does not travel 18" above extended arm level.



However, on a side note, one could argue that the video shows an athlete fall to her seat by the "nugget" in the back of the floor right around the time of the basket toss.

 

[AndyT_T]

I don't know what logic they actually used, but this is the closest I can figure out:

Assuming they saw/caught it (which isn't a given) - It fits the definition of a release move, toss, AND basket toss.

Glossary: Release Move:

When the top person becomes free of contact with all people on the performing surface; see “Free Release Move”

Under "release moves" in L5 rules.

1. Release moves are allowed but must not exceed more than eighteen inches above extended arm level. Clarification: If the release move exceeds more than 18 inches above the bases’ extended arm level, it will be considered a toss and/or dismount, and must follow the appropriate “Toss” and/or “Dismount” rules.

Regardless of what the "toss" requirements are, it has been expressly allowed because of the above. It does not travel 18" above extended arm level.



However, on a side note, one could argue that the video shows an athlete fall to her seat by the "nugget" in the back of the floor right around the time of the basket toss.

Okay that I can understand, thank you. It's been driving me crazy lol if it wasn't a basket wouldn't it be ruled as a dismount then, since it lands in cradle? Can you cradle from a double based prep without a spotter? Because if you can I could see them calling this a two based dismount from a prep level stunt.

Do you think this will lead to USASF clarifying in the rules next year the difference between toss and release move (like how they clarify for level 1 what a toss is)?

Wait, that would be considered a fall? Is it a fall if you trip walking in your routine even if you're not tumbling? I didn't know that! I wonder if it's ever cost people a win.

 

[BlueCat]

Wait, that would be considered a fall? Is it a fall if you trip walking in your routine even if you're not tumbling? I didn't know that! I wonder if it's ever cost people a win.

It is vague in their descriptions and like many enforcement issues, varies from week to week and event to event. The examples USASF gives are falls during/after skills, but the don't specifically define it as limited to those. When our athletes trip and fall unrelated to an acrobatic skill, we sometimes get deducted and sometimes don't.

 

[IEA.Elizabeth]

FYI - A stunt that collapses to the ground gets the same deduction as an illegal skill (4 pts)

Sometimes if I stunt hits the ground can't it also be a safety deduction? Or is it all the same my team got what they called a safety deduction of 4 points because when they did a full down the base tripped and the flyer hit the ground


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[blunchin]

Hang on, what?

Why on earth did they break that tie?

6 points is a heck of a lot of deductions, but they still could have given them a bronze. What are you doing USASF?

There is no literature on their website on how ties are broken, so it was a hard pill to swallow. We cannot be 100% sure that policy is consistent or just picked the day of bc technically the specifics of a tie break doesn't exist. As others mentioned, there have been ties in the past. There was also a typo on the website saying it would break ties for "gold, silver, and bold placings" so they could have rewarded reign a globe as well (USAF's typo is their issue, not ours...hire someone who can proofread). We reached out to Steve Peterson for clarification and his response lacked an apology for lack of transparency/consistency, empathy, and might as well of said "deal with it". It also lacked an actual answer for where we could find how the USASF breaks ties. I wish the USASF would be consistent and realize we have to explain this nonsense to children who only saw they received the same score as smoex. It goes to show how important consistent performances are and I applaud all of the globe winners. Still super proud of our kids because that division is no joke! Happy tryouts, yall!

 

[Official OWECheer]

We reached out to Steve Peterson for clarification and his response lacked an apology for lack of transparency/consistency, empathy, and might as well of said "deal with it". It also lacked an actual answer for where we could find how the USASF breaks ties.

I couldn't find an emoji that describes how this makes me feel.

The cow wasn't enough.

 

[BlueCat]

If they are going to break ties for final placements, why not use the scores from the previous round? Every other multi-round event of the season uses a combination of scores from other rounds to determine the winner. (Giving it to the team that the panel judges scored the lowest still seems backwards to me.)

It seems like USASF picks the oddest places to try to distance itself from Varsity. They refuse to use the Varsity scoring system because of how that would look, but they have no problem with Varsity owning a big chunk of permanent, unelected board of director seats.