All-Star Worth A Read

[catlady]

Fair enough @SharkDad .

There have been a number of these types of threads over the years I've been on the boards. I enjoy seeing if there's any new development, laws, investors or if it's just a different article, new spin, same frustration. The same people come in and claim to have the tea, say they can't divulge the tea but, state the tea will eventually hit the harbor. This tea is either some of the finest around or it's just stale and bitter. I'd say time will tell but, cp only has one more year before she ages out. I love a good poetry reading though.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Fair enough @SharkDad .

There have been a number of these types of threads over the years I've been on the boards. I enjoy seeing if there's any new development, laws, investors or if it's just a different article, new spin, same frustration. The same people come in and claim to have the tea, say they can't divulge the tea but, state the tea will eventually hit the harbor. This tea is either some of the finest around or it's just stale and bitter. I'd say time will tell but, cp only has one more year before she ages out. I love a good poetry reading though.

Stale and bitter?

 

[catlady]

Stale and bitter?

Yes, old tea is either stale and bitter or it's seeped to perfection. I take it you've tasted the tea and know all that this tea beholds but, tea-less owls are supposed to wait and listen. #5yearsnotea #realtalk

 

[Official OWECheer]

Yes, old tea is either stale and bitter or it's seeped to perfection. I take it you've tasted the tea and know all that this tea beholds but, tea-less owls are supposed to wait and listen. #5yearsnotea #realtalk

Not saying everyone has "asked the tea"... but you'd probably be shocked at the number of people who have witnessed things that they dare not speak about, lest they be branded a "hater" and ostracized.

 

[SharkDad]

@catlady you're right. The sport has to change itself and neither you nor I has control over that.

I think people who drink the tea should not do it with rose colored glasses.

 

[Official OWECheer]

@catlady you're right. The sport has to change itself and neither you nor I has control over that.

I think people who drink the tea should not do it with rose colored glasses.

Who/what do we define as "the sport"? Does that not include all of us (gyms, coaches, EPs, etc.; the most parents can do is demands safety from their coaches as their hands are almost entirely tied in other areas), limited as our power (at least individually) might be?

 

[SharkDad]

I'd say gym's, coaches, athletes, i.e participants. EPs should not be included as well as the companies that make the most money off of the participants, which becomes a conflict of interest.

Parents underestimate the power they have. They pay ALL the bills. The current business structure masks that power by making the gym the intermediary of all payments to the big companies and the parents/kids are emotionally invested in the gyms. From a business market standpoint if a service is not right, refuse payment (i.e.uniforms from a historically bad vender or a continuing to go to a crappy competition company). If the gyms get the word their consumers are not happy they stop going to certain big companies. Some of the good gyms already do that on their own but many do not and favor the business's that provide them the biggest kickback regardless if it's best for their athletes.

ETA: Unfortunatley there is a reverse market pressure: Big companies put pressure on the gyms, gyms put pressure on the parents in the form of "if you speak out your kid is off of X team". At some point it will take a large number of one of these groups to speak up and do the right thing. Individually nothing will ever change.

 

[catlady]

@SharkDad Amen.

I can only speak for myself but, I look on the USASF website, read articles, I go to practices, listen to parents, listen at comps, listen to coaches and I watch. If I don't like what I'm hearing, then I watch for myself, and wait to see how it's being handled. As far as the industry as a whole, we're here, and it's not where it was last year or the year before. I respect those that say it isn't for them any more and pull their kids. I, also, respect those that say their kids love it, the good outweighs the bad, and they stay. When more people are leaving than staying, change happens.

@Official OWECheer As far as being shocked by what happens, I'm not. I've seen really nice, good people go out of business. I've seen good people with really great ideas told to be quiet. But, I've also, worked at a large corp and I got to hang out with the top execs, and I know they aren't what people paint them to be. Most of their days are spent putting out fires based on new laws, competition, and now more than ever, healthcare. There is a real and honest struggle when something new presents itself that is found to be a threat or dangerous, and sometimes the best they can do is try to find middle ground until they can do more research and try to resolve the issue. If someone is making a lot of noise before they can get there, they will take them to court. Like it or not, our laws protect our businesses in those scenarios as long as they are making progress to resolve the issue, and if they can't resolve it, they make them spend millions putting the word out on labels and PSA's. Our laws aren't always black and white on things that are dangerous for us, or our kids but, that doesn't prevent us from saying "no" and not partaking if we don't want to.

 

[SharkDad]

Thanks for the dislike @coachrah. These are just my opinions from a parent's perspective. I'd love to discuss it with you anytime or go ahead and post your disagreement if you'd like.

 

[BlueCat]

I'd say gym's, coaches, athletes, i.e participants. EPs should not be included as well as the companies that make the most money off of the participants, which becomes a conflict of interest.

Parents underestimate the power they have. They pay ALL the bills. The current business structure masks that power by making the gym the intermediary of all payments to the big companies and the parents/kids are emotionally invested in the gyms. From a business market standpoint if a service is not right, refuse payment (i.e.uniforms from a historically bad vender or a continuing to go to a crappy competition company). If the gyms get the word their consumers are not happy they stop going to certain big companies. Some of the good gyms already do that on their own but many do not and favor the business's that provide them the biggest kickback regardless if it's best for their athletes.

ETA: Unfortunatley there is a reverse market pressure: Big companies put pressure on the gyms, gyms put pressure on the parents in the form of "if you speak out your kid is off of X team". At some point it will take a large number of one of these groups to speak up and do the right thing. Individually nothing will ever change.

It certainly has worked on us, although to the opposite effect. As coaches, we have not been impressed with Summit at all. It is a brilliant marketing scheme to get everyone to go to more Varsity events, but as an event, it is unremarkable. It also eliminates the off-season for many teams and can be a very expensive trip for parents.

However, the parents have really bought into the hype. Because of that, we have been forced to go to more Varsity "Summit" bid events than we would ever go to before. Many of those events we would simply never attend from a value standpoint, except that our customers demand it.

We really wish we could support more independent event producers, but pressure from the parents means that we are basically pushed to more Varsity events. There are a few events, like NCA, that we happily would go to regardless of bids - but some we would not.

I really wish more gyms would adopt the "all-inclusive" type tuition system. This aligns the gyms' incentives better to get quality for their entry fee dollar. All of a sudden a quality national with a $100 entry fee looks like a better bargain than a lesser event that charges $150, but gives a $30 kickback to the gym. Under the "collect entry fees from parents and pay them out" model, the $150 entry fee actually nets the gym more money, even though it is more expensive and not necessarily better. Under the all-inclusive model, gym owners can simply look at the final cost of an event and decide whether it is a good value or not.

 

[coachrah]

Thanks for the dislike @coachrah. These are just my opinions from a parent's perspective. I'd love to discuss it with you anytime or go ahead and post your disagreement if you'd like.

What I would like to discuss with you is that I didn't know know I accidentally hit the dislike button... That was supposed to be a shimmy... Forget rose colored glasses ... I need glasses..period. Your views on this board are the voice of reason and integrity for which I personally, have been thankful.

 

[coachrah]

Let's recap, I originally stated I don't think anything is that peculiar from a business standpoint. You come back with "I'm amazed at the puffery in light of the truth" and "I know more than most." I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me but, don't be surprised if you post articles on the NHL and ask me questions and I actually respond. By the way you liked my post where I answered your question on PG & E, I'll take that as a mistake. Cue the removal in 3, 2, 1....

@SharkDad No one is going to dispute the history of Varsity, cheer and stunt. I'm just trying to understand this post and some of the others from a very fundamental standpoint and that is: What is it you all want to happen? Are there investors, or laws, that can actually make it happen?

Fair enough @SharkDad .

There have been a number of these types of threads over the years I've been on the boards. I enjoy seeing if there's any new development, laws, investors or if it's just a different article, new spin, same frustration. The same people come in and claim to have the tea, say they can't divulge the tea but, state the tea will eventually hit the harbor. This tea is either some of the finest around or it's just stale and bitter. I'd say time will tell but, cp only has one more year before she ages out. I love a good poetry reading though.

I'd say the Royal Manticoran Navy pretty much dumped some tea in the "harbor"
(Pg. 15) in their amicus brief to SCOTUS:
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/15-866-tsac-TheRoyalManticoranNavy.pdf

 

[tumbleyoda]

I'd say the Royal Manticoran Navy pretty much dumped some tea in the "harbor"
(Pg. 15) in their amicus brief to SCOTUS:
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/15-866-tsac-TheRoyalManticoranNavy.pdf

Great read. Thanks. Going back to my stale bitter old tea and poetry now. :shaka:

 

[XtremeWpg]

It certainly has worked on us, although to the opposite effect. As coaches, we have not been impressed with Summit at all. It is a brilliant marketing scheme to get everyone to go to more Varsity events, but as an event, it is unremarkable. It also eliminates the off-season for many teams and can be a very expensive trip for parents.

However, the parents have really bought into the hype. Because of that, we have been forced to go to more Varsity "Summit" bid events than we would ever go to before. Many of those events we would simply never attend from a value standpoint, except that our customers demand it.

We really wish we could support more independent event producers, but pressure from the parents means that we are basically pushed to more Varsity events. There are a few events, like NCA, that we happily would go to regardless of bids - but some we would not.

I really wish more gyms would adopt the "all-inclusive" type tuition system. This aligns the gyms' incentives better to get quality for their entry fee dollar. All of a sudden a quality national with a $100 entry fee looks like a better bargain than a lesser event that charges $150, but gives a $30 kickback to the gym. Under the "collect entry fees from parents and pay them out" model, the $150 entry fee actually nets the gym more money, even though it is more expensive and not necessarily better. Under the all-inclusive model, gym owners can simply look at the final cost of an event and decide whether it is a good value or not.

We don't have the Varsity issue, but we've adopted the "all-inclusive" tuition idea. Only things not covered are uniforms (since not everyone needs one every season) and travel since flights etc vary. It's made decisions about events very simple because regardless of what we do, it's paid for already. Parents also like it because we're not asking for money every time something comes up!

 

[catlady]

I'd say the Royal Manticoran Navy pretty much dumped some tea in the "harbor"
(Pg. 15) in their amicus brief to SCOTUS:
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/15-866-tsac-TheRoyalManticoranNavy.pdf

So now it's not PG & E, it's the Royal Manticoran Navy?

I give enough credit to people if they experience, see or hear anything illegal, they'll give that information to the proper authority for the courts to decide. Otherwise, there's "tea" and then there's just "bitterness" on how things evolve, go down, and how people say it should be versus the law.

I'll just end my portion in this thread by stating any other "tea" event post you quote me in, my response above remains the same. If it's illegal I don't support or condone it. If it's legal, we have the choice to support it or not. That has been, and always will be, the "tea".