All-Star 2012-2013 Changes To The Usasf Age Grid

[12stepCheermom]

I don't think the Rules Committee doesn't care about children-that's just silly. If anything, they do care about children and are trying to make the best decisions possible FOR these kids.

Maybe it's location, but the mini division is usually 5-10 deep here at even the small competitions. And silly me, I thought tiny would be a fun division for a small group of siblings that wanted to start cheering. At the first competition, I was mortified and seriously thought to myself: "This is the worst idea I've ever had." The "tiny" teams were GIANTS and competitive as could be. Hats off to the coaches that had flawless tiny routines in November, but that was not us. And although my tiny team ended up being a great team in the end, it was a struggle and a real eye opener.

I think some of the problem is that tiny teams are not generally that big because it's hard to find 20 five year olds, and I'm thinking in my head that maybe some smaller gyms could produce these tiny teams if there was another age included. CA will probably always have a long line of young ones waiting to get in the door and start, but that's not the same as my small gym in a small town.

Also, I agree with your comment on the prep division. We did it last year, and I have nothing but great things to say about it and how I think it should and will take off. I think the difference is getting these kids in the door at 12, or getting them in the door at 6.

I hear what your saying. Theres a huge difference between a mini team whose average age is 6 and one who's average age is 9. You can't coach maturity and body control, that just comes with growing up and our mini divisions are the size yours are 8-10 teams. One team we saw frequently we nicknamed the middle school minis because they were huge compared to ours...like check the drivers license huge..... You just cant hang with that when most of your kids are barely past the tiny cutoff.

 

[gymcatmomx2]

I think the Senior age division is what the issue is: 18/under vs. ages 10-18
What do you do with that 9 year old with the skills and talent? Especially if there is no level appropriate team option. Most small gyms do have some sort of issue with those betweeners; not enough gym participants to make another team to fit them.

Our small gym doesn't have a problem with not having enough participants.. are problem is we have too many. We currently have 7 teams, 5 of which are competitive.. Show, Youth 1, Junior 2, Junior 4, Senior 4.2, Senior 4 and Special Needs. There will be have to be cuts prior to choreoghaphy but more then likely we will lose a few to normal attitrition. I really wish they would bump the small gym number to 100 so that they could have a full 5 teams.

 

[njallday]

Our small gym doesn't have a problem with not having enough participants.. are problem is we have too many. We currently have 7 teams, 5 of which are competitive.. Show, Youth 1, Junior 2, Junior 4, Senior 4.2, Senior 4 and Special Needs. There will be have to be cuts prior to choreoghaphy but more then likely we will lose a few to normal attitrition. I really wish they would bump the small gym number to 100 so that they could have a full 5 teams.

Is this a common practice for small gyms? making cuts so they can stay in the small gym category? why stunt your growth if you're growing?

(this question isn't completely directed at you, more just in general)

 

[newcheerdad]

I don't see the massive jump between the purposes of Tiny and Mini. To me, there is a gradual change as you go through the age ranges (and skill levels) for how "competitive" it should be. Sure, mini is (and should be) a bit more about the competition element than tiny, however, it's not like 6, 7, and 8 year olds should feel that a sporting event is life of death either.

The best "transition" into regular all-star is the new set of all-star prep divisions.

I get that some prefer different age ranges. However, insinuating that the Rules Committee doesn't care about children because of where they decide to make the age cutoffs is insulting.

I honestly don't think that tiny-aged kids, for the most part, care all that much about the competitive aspect of cheer. You seem some more of that with minis, but the reality is that from my experience (in both cheer and soccer) it's usually about 3rd-4th grade that kids really start caring about wins and losses.

 

[Labegg]

I honestly don't think that tiny-aged kids, for the most part, care all that much about the competitive aspect of cheer. You seem some more of that with minis, but the reality is that from my experience (in both cheer and soccer) it's usually about 3rd-4th grade that kids really start caring about wins and losses.

My CP's first step into the cheerworld was on an exhbition team when she was 5. They were a "hot mess" at their first (and just about every other ;) ) event. We had spent some time watching the tiny and mini divisions before she went on and the moment she stepped off the floor she came running up to me and said "Mommy, we looked bad, I don't ever want to go out there and look that stupid again".

At her request, certainly not mine, (I wanted to go home and get out of the venue with all that pounding music!) we stayed for the ENTIRE rest of the competition and by the end of the day she told me, "I liked the blue and yellow team best. They were really together. That's where I want to cheer."

We finished out the season on that exhibition team. CP cheered at that gym with the blue and yellow teams for 3 seasons. One year on a Tiny team and then two years on a very competetive Mini team. In those first years her team never finished less than 3rd (usually in a field of 5 or 6) and took home several National Champion Jackets and lots of 1st place finishes. Now at age 12, unfortunately all those wins early on have definately colored her competetive nature and she has a hard time accepting a loss.

Just wanted to illustrate that you never know how seriously those tinys take it...

 

[CoachTamara]

Just wanted to illustrate that you never know how seriously those tinys take it...

My tiny team was fully aware of winning and losing... As were the parents. The first time we beat a team it was a big deal for both me and the parents. It was a HUGE accomplishment for our small team. Although they knew they beat someone, they also knew they got beat by someone.
Thankfully, by the end of the season they looked great and ended up winning a couple of competitions (yes, against other teams!), but they knew the difference between being called first and last. And let me tell you, they didn't like being last. I think that was a big factor in them getting it together and getting to the point they were at when they finished the season. Plus, they were always the cutest team out there in my book. :)

Anyways, I think taking some of that pressure off of them at that age would help a lot. Does that tiny team reallllly need to be national champions? Or would they be just as excited to exhibition and get a participation trophy? They would be able to get on stage, show off, get comfortable with the basics, without having to be "losers" in the process.

 

[Labegg]

Anyways, I think taking some of that pressure off of them at that age would help a lot. Does that tiny team reallllly need to be national champions? Or would they be just as excited to exhibition and get a participation trophy? They would be able to get on stage, show off, get comfortable with the basics, without having to be "losers" in the process.

I agree and it would be good to take the pressure off...but as you said you, knowing the difference between being called first and last may have been a factor in getting them to "get it together". Its a double edged sword. I think 5 years ago it was possible to have tinys without the pressure, but things have gotten CRAZY competetive in cheerworld. I know my CP feels like she is behind on her skills even though she is level 4 at age 12. :rolleyes: I keep telling her you have 6 more years to make a level 5 team, relax!

So do you have to have the tinys and mini's "get it together" so that they can progress and even be in the playing field later on? I notice this in just about every sport, my other daughter plays soccer and lacrosse and they are pushed just as much to have skills to make the travel teams. Its like kids don't get a chance to try a sport and see if they like it without being expected to have mastered the skills in the first year.

 

[Ashley]

So do you have to have the tinys and mini's "get it together" so that they can progress and even be in the playing field later on? I notice this in just about every sport, my other daughter plays soccer and lacrosse and they are pushed just as much to have skills to make the travel teams. Its like kids don't get a chance to try a sport and see if they like it without being expected to have mastered the skills in the first year.

In little league, t-ball games always mysteriously end in a tie. I wouldn't mind having the tiny division be exhibition only. When my old gym hosted a small competition they gave every tiny team a trophy and all the kiddos medal. I don't even think they announced places.

 

[idrive]

The link she posted was dated today for 12-13.

"International Open Cheer –
For non-U.S. teams competing in International divisions, please use the restrictions listed below.
For U.S. teams competing in International divisions, use the restrictions on the USASF Age Grid."

It sounds like they're saying IASF and USASF could have different age rules...

Just plain STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[idrive]

I really hope for my sanity that they are both the same. I knew that it said they wouldn't know until the IASF updates everything offically, but if it is different then I am going to be an angry woman.

Of course the ages are going to be different for the level 5 divisions, they are forgiving and all remember. Ugh I need to take over the USASF.

Did you ever see the CareerBuilder commercials with the monkeys in the conference room? That is my vision of what it look like at a USASF meeting!

 

[ztaprincess]

Just plain STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah there is a big difference in an athlete who has to be 17 by August 2012 and one who has to be 17 by December 2013.

 

[idrive]

Yeah there is a big difference in an athlete who has to be 17 by August 2012 and one who has to be 17 by December 2013.

Agreed! My biggest frustration is this will leave my child off of our IOC5 this year...... again! She was a visctim of the first change in the ages a few years ago and no we are back to where we were.:banghead:

 

[gymcatmomx2]

Is this a common practice for small gyms? making cuts so they can stay in the small gym category? why stunt your growth if you're growing?

(this question isn't completely directed at you, more just in general)

I'm just a mom so I can only speak from my experience at our small gym. We've been there going on 5 years and the gym is going on its 13th season. Our gym shares space with a gymnastics organization so the gym is basically cut in half.. there's a gymnastics spring floor and a cheer spring floor. We all share the tumble track and the trampolines. Our gym owner is a mom of 3 kids with the youngest being a toddler. She has no desire to take on the responsibility of a larger gym.. which would include finding a larger facility and the cost associated with that, hiring more coaches, more time away from her kids, much more stress, etc. There is most definitely a need for small gyms.. I personally prefer them but would not be opposed to moving to a larger gym considering there are numerous ones to choose from including four "worlds" gyms that are within a 45 minute driving distance.

My desire for bumping the number of athletes to 100 for small gyms is just my preference.. it's an even number and sounds better than 75. :)

 

[CoachTamara]

My desire for bumping the number of athletes to 100 for small gyms is just my preference.. it's an even number and sounds better than 75. :)

I think the capability of a gym with 100 is much different than a gym with 75 though... 25 is a lot of kids. This is coming from a small town, small gym where an additional 5-10 kids changes things drastically, but it's just my perspective.

Related, I would love to see numbers for small gyms... How many are actually close to the 75 number? I usually envision average small gyms as being around 50, not 75. Once you are breaking 100, you have been around for a bit and are probably growing each year, but like I said, I would love to see numbers because this is simply an assumption in my head.

 

[BlueCat]

I really wish they would bump the small gym number to 100 so that they could have a full 5 teams.

That is among the craziest things I have heard. Deliberately turning people away so that you can compete in the "small gym" category?

The number is 75 because the USASF had, at one point, figured that the average gym size was around 70. My guess is that the median is more like 60 because you have a few outlier mega-gyms that are in no way typical.

This is one of the reasons I had proposed a different setup for dividing gyms. Two divisions, one more competitive ("World League") and a less competitive one ("National League"). As a gym, you pick the one you compete in that season, and you are not allowed to change mid-year. The more competitive division would be eligible for bids, the less competitive division would not. There would only be division splits along these lines at larger events.