All-Star Age Changes?

[dat.jpp]

I have heard that XS all girl and coed will be a division at worlds however the only way you can compete in it is if you win the bid competing in that division and it's the only team from the program that competes at worlds...honestly this takes always the purpose of worlds you are suppose to compete against the best why can't Big Gym A compete against Small gym B


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Small Gym B has been around for around 6-8 years. There usually a "less developed" gym/team. They have around 4-6 fulls out of lets say 18 athletes, and all of the stunt groups all do 1 1/2 up to 2-leg extension (They should honestly be Restricted 5). While Big Gym A has been opened for 20+ years and has almost (if not) everyone doing doubles and double ups to 1-leg. Big Gym A usually score higher then Small Gym B so of course Big Gym A wins.

 

[Lisa Seye]

I have heard that XS all girl and coed will be a division at worlds however the only way you can compete in it is if you win the bid competing in that division and it's the only team from the program that competes at worlds...honestly this takes always the purpose of worlds you are suppose to compete against the best why can't Big Gym A compete against Small gym B


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Because everybody that is able to, leaves small gym for big gym so they can be on a worlds team. Well not everybody but quite a few.

 

[cheer25mom]

Because everybody that is able to, leaves small gym for big gym so they can be on a worlds team. Well not everybody but quite a few.

Yep, this is it, it's virtually impossible for a small gym to develop a pool of worlds level athletes if there is a feasible big gym option. Anyone who can is going to the big gym. Even if small gym fields a worlds team, they are doing it with the athletes that didn't make the cut at the big gym. They will NEVER be competitive that way, which makes more kids head to the big gym.

This new extra small, division will give small programs a chance to actually grow a pool of worlds level talent rather than feeding all that talent to big gyms. Big gyms don't like that.




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[CheerBank]

Yep, this is it, it's virtually impossible for a small gym to develop a pool of worlds level athletes if there is a feasible big gym option. Anyone who can is going to the big gym. Even if small gym fields a worlds team, they are doing it with the athletes that didn't make the cut at the big gym. They will NEVER be competitive that way, which makes more kids head to the big gym.

This new extra small, division will give small programs a chance to actually grow a pool of worlds level talent rather than feeding all that talent to big gyms. Big gyms don't like that.




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I'm curious to see if it really pans out this way. Having been at small gyms for most of cp's cheer life, I don't think the sole problems of smaller gyms is having athletes leave for bigger gyms.

 

[cheer25mom]

I'm curious to see if it really pans out this way. Having been at small gyms for most of cp's cheer life, I don't think the sole problems of smaller gyms is having athletes leave for bigger gyms.

It's not the SOLE problem, but as far as building strong worlds teams, its one of the biggest factors for gyms within a reasonable drive of mega gyms.

I cannot think of a single gym under 200 athletes and within a 2 hours drive of a mega gym that consistently makes finals at Worlds.

 

[BlueCat]

It's not the SOLE problem, but as far as building strong worlds teams, its one of the biggest factors for gyms within a reasonable drive of mega gyms.

I cannot think of a single gym under 200 athletes and within a 2 hours drive of a mega gym that consistently makes finals at Worlds.

Are there gyms under 200 athletes NOT within a 2 hour drive of a "mega gym" that consistently make finals?

 

[cheer25mom]

Are there gyms under 200 athletes NOT within a 2 hour drive of a "mega gym" that consistently make finals?

Not many I would think, or I should say not anymore.

Aside to this:
I see over and over in this sport that everyone should be lumped together and it is not a true "world championship" if everyone isn't in the same division ect, but honestly, if that the case why does anyone outside the top few gyms even try? As of 2106, there are only 11 gyms who have won more than 7 globes total over all years. Bottom line is that this sport is dominated by a few mega programs, and the idea that "anyone can win if they have the talent" is largely a myth. Big programs with big resources have the ability to consistently out do everyone else, pretty much without exception. Why not limit worlds to mega programs only, and let everyone else compete where they have some chance of winning? Let the top 10 programs in the nation by size duke it out, and have a system where gym size determines which "series" you compete in beyond that.

 

[quitthedrama]

Not many I would think, or I should say not anymore.

Aside to this:
I see over and over in this sport that everyone should be lumped together and it is not a true "world championship" if everyone isn't in the same division ect, but honestly, if that the case why does anyone outside the top few gyms even try? As of 2106, there are only 11 gyms who have won more than 7 globes total over all years. Bottom line is that this sport is dominated by a few mega programs, and the idea that "anyone can win if they have the talent" is largely a myth. Big programs with big resources have the ability to consistently out do everyone else, pretty much without exception. Why not limit worlds to mega programs only, and let everyone else compete where they have some chance of winning? Let the top 10 programs in the nation by size duke it out, and have a system where gym size determines which "series" you compete in beyond that.

This makes zero sense. Obviously bigger programs have a better chance of winning, but much of the data you are using is due to some gyms being in business and attending worlds for many years longer than other programs. For the past several years, there have been very few gyms who have multiple worlds titles in a year, particularly in the senior divisions. Gyms who have never or seldom won are winning and globing. Many gyms who aren't mega gyms have teams in the finals. Most athletes WANT to compete against the best, even if they don't end up winning.

 

[cheermomforever]

To put in perspective...athletes who r just on top gun lg coed roster currently is more than half of our total gym so big gyms have the pick of people/skills etc to make the great well rounded team. We have what we have and do our best with it As a small gym we hold our own and can proudly say we have been top 10 at summit and worlds but will never b in finals at Worlds.

 

[BlueCat]

Not many I would think, or I should say not anymore.

Aside to this:
I see over and over in this sport that everyone should be lumped together and it is not a true "world championship" if everyone isn't in the same division ect, but honestly, if that the case why does anyone outside the top few gyms even try? As of 2106, there are only 11 gyms who have won more than 7 globes total over all years. Bottom line is that this sport is dominated by a few mega programs, and the idea that "anyone can win if they have the talent" is largely a myth. Big programs with big resources have the ability to consistently out do everyone else, pretty much without exception. Why not limit worlds to mega programs only, and let everyone else compete where they have some chance of winning? Let the top 10 programs in the nation by size duke it out, and have a system where gym size determines which "series" you compete in beyond that.

Aside to your aside:
Those 11 gyms have won less than 20% of the medals that have been awarded. Your suggestion would keep 4/5ths of the medalist programs from returning - no one has even remotely suggested that. There have been 79 different programs who have won medals and 49 who have won multiple medals. Sure there are a few programs that have won more than others, but that isn't unusual in sports.

 

[Lablover]

Actually this rule could also hurt "mega" gyms with many franchise locations. Rockstar Cheer comes to mind- they have a ton of gyms in lots of different states in many instances taking over smaller gyms. So one of their smaller franchises can put together a fabulous 14 person XS level 5 team but will not be able to compete in XS because other Rockstar locations have Worlds teams.

Which leads me to my other question-- could a really amazing team with 14 members really not compete against a team of 20? I mean if Generals or SSX went to 14 would they not be able to win small senior? As long as you max out tumbling/stunting would team size make a difference?

 

[dat.jpp]

Anybody else have a feeling that somehow there going to make a D2 Worlds or is it just me? I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this does happen as there is already a D2 Summit.

 

[Knowcheering]

Anybody else have a feeling that somehow there going to make a D2 Worlds or is it just me? I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this does happen as there is already a D2 Summit.

I doubt there would ever be enough teams in just one level (especially the most advanced level) to justify breaking Worlds into two separate competitions, even if they opened it up to Jr. It's not like Summit where there's a boatload of divisions. The Small Youth 1 division alone at D2 Summit was massive (nearly 70 teams). Two separate Summits dilutes the competition at both Summits, but nobody really cares because there is high participation at both. Level 5 is a different ballgame. But you never know what they will do next in this sport lol.

This XS division isn't really D2 anyway, even though it likely formed with those sized gyms in mind. Plenty of gyms aren't D2 size but can only field one Worlds team and might consider XS if their talent pool is that small. Just because a gym has a lot of athletes (I'm talking a normal sized gym not a mega gym) doesn't mean they have a lot of Worlds level athletes.

 

[OnceUponACheerleader]

Yep, this is it, it's virtually impossible for a small gym to develop a pool of worlds level athletes if there is a feasible big gym option. Anyone who can is going to the big gym. Even if small gym fields a worlds team, they are doing it with the athletes that didn't make the cut at the big gym. They will NEVER be competitive that way, which makes more kids head to the big gym.

This new extra small, division will give small programs a chance to actually grow a pool of worlds level talent rather than feeding all that talent to big gyms. Big gyms don't like that.




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EXACTLY! If I was an athlete at a small gym with a specialty to double -exceptional stunting skills, point stunter/jumper/dancer & was fielded on Small Gym Allstars World team with 19 other girls/athletes who paste on a jump tuck, the team will not be competitive - because it is a team sport. Doesn't matter how great I am. At which point I feel as though I would like to go to a gym where, maybe I am not the best, but I'm competing with kids of equal caliber and my skills will contribute to a larger title.

XS worlds division, D2 Worlds, Small Gym Division , or what ever you want to call it - will attempt to eliminate the "we always lose to the big gym' problem - and give exceptional level 5 athletes a reason to stay at Small Gym Allstars World Team - with a chance at being competitive.