All-Star Alcohol/drugs At Worlds

[cheermomforever]

Wait....no beer garden??? PARENTS can’t have a drink at Worlds?!?!? WTF?? Why can’t a legal parent, who is NOT competing, have a beer?? That’s how I relax a bit before they go on. WTF?!

dont think they will lose ALL the $$$$ that beer brings in!!!~

 

[SL&AM]

The policy covers parents not being able to drink? Whoever wrote that is high...

1. How else does a parent get through World's weekend without a drink?

2. What stops Black & Blue Mom from throwing on a different Black & Blue shirt and doing a keg stand for some cameras? The amount of control this could give to the nasty underbelly of horrible Susie's Moms would be endless and before anyone hollers; I guarantee you could find a parent in every single gym attending World's that could be tempted by the prospects of tipping the scales in their kid's favor.

Note, Black & Blue Mom is an example and not reflective of the parents associated with the Black & Blue Programs; Black & Blue are just popular colors.

 

[Sterling von Shimmer]

I was gonna say, what'd stop a person from donning the shirt from another gym and posing with alcohol/other stuff on the list with their face masked? This sounds like one of those 'sounds ok on paper, but in reality has 0% chance of working as written' policies.

(I still don't get why this policy covers athletes for the entire worlds, and not just until their team has finished competing for the final time.)

That might cross someone’s mind, but if they actually tried to incriminate another gym with their faces hidden it wouldn’t go anywhere because I’m pretty sure you have to be able to identify the guilty person before you punish them. Due diligence and all that.

Plus if anything like that happened, IG and Twitter would be all over solving that crap lol. Anons live for this stuff. I can just see all the comments:

“LOL THIS GYM’S ATHLETES ARW FINALLY IS REVEALED FOR WHO THEY REALLY ARE!!!”

“THIS IS FAKE LOOK AT THE UNIFORM ON THE BED IT’S THE RIVAL TEAM’S!”

“I KNOW WHO REALLY DID THIS I HEARD THEM TALKING ON THE ELEVATOR ON DAY 1!”

“RYAN AND KENLEY DID IT!”

Etc.

 

[Eyes On The Prize]

This sounds like one of those 'sounds ok on paper, but in reality has 0% chance of working as written' policies.

So like every other USASF policy?

Has there been an official, public release of this rule by USASF that includes parents? Because what I'm reading here in this thread and what I'm reading in the public guidelines are two different things? I'm asking for clarification for what the specific wording is of the new, unpublished rule because USASF is less than transparent with this stuff. I'm skeptical to believe a screenshot of a random tweet and word of mouth about this.

"Alcohol" only shows up three times in the 2019 worlds guidelines.

1. Under the "Event Violation Policy" (pg 15), it says for USASF Member Athlete: [Immediate disciplinary action when found] under the influence of drugs or alcohol at any venue at any time during the event from arrival to departure on Tuesday.

2. Under "Sportsmanship" (pg 17), its states: Smoking and/or the use of alcohol by an athlete is prohibited at any Worlds event location.

3. Under "Hotel/Resort Guidelines" (pg 17), it states: Smoking and/or the use of alcohol by an athlete [in the hotel/resort] is prohibited.

None of these mention anything about parents, visitors, family members, etc. Coaches don't even have alcohol rules in the guidelines, they're all about USASF athletes.

The rules also very specifically say "at any World's/event location/venue". I looked for a definition of what a "Worlds/event location/venue" is and there was no specific definition in the guidelines. The closest I got was on page 22, under "Tournament Facility", it states: The competition is scheduled to be held at ESPN Wide World of Sports® Complex, HP Field House, and Visa Center. I would also include wherever registration is and wherever the Block Party is as "event locations".

Unless there is a different, unpublished USASF rule, I think parents, family, visitors, spectators, etc are in the clear - they are not bound by the above rules. USASF trying to enforce those rules on anyone other than USASF athletes (and maybe coaches, though that should be left up to the gym) is a complete overstep of their power. They have no jurisdiction anywhere except wherever their vaguely stated "Worlds event locations" are. USASF cannot control what their visitors do in the rest of the park or off property.

 

[catlady]

Where is the actual policy in writing from the USASF stating all of these individual rules and consequences? I know @caffeineandglitter posted the actual policy and consequence from the World's packet, but I have yet to see anything from them that lists all of these individual rules.

ETA: Ignore @Eyes On The Prize beat me at asking this question.

If athletes/parents are having to sign a code of conduct, it seems to me these specific can't be found rules are coming from individual gyms.

 

[caffeineandglitter]

So like every other USASF policy?

Has there been an official, public release of this rule by USASF that includes parents? Because what I'm reading here in this thread and what I'm reading in the public guidelines are two different things? I'm asking for clarification for what the specific wording is of the new, unpublished rule because USASF is less than transparent with this stuff. I'm skeptical to believe a screenshot of a random tweet and word of mouth about this.

"Alcohol" only shows up three times in the 2019 worlds guidelines.

1. Under the "Event Violation Policy" (pg 15), it says for USASF Member Athlete: [Immediate disciplinary action when found] under the influence of drugs or alcohol at any venue at any time during the event from arrival to departure on Tuesday.

2. Under "Sportsmanship" (pg 17), its states: Smoking and/or the use of alcohol by an athlete is prohibited at any Worlds event location.

3. Under "Hotel/Resort Guidelines" (pg 17), it states: Smoking and/or the use of alcohol by an athlete [in the hotel/resort] is prohibited.

None of these mention anything about parents, visitors, family members, etc. Coaches don't even have alcohol rules in the guidelines, they're all about USASF athletes.

The rules also very specifically say "at any World's/event location/venue". I looked for a definition of what a "Worlds/event location/venue" is and there was no specific definition in the guidelines. The closest I got was on page 22, under "Tournament Facility", it states: The competition is scheduled to be held at ESPN Wide World of Sports® Complex, HP Field House, and Visa Center. I would also include wherever registration is and wherever the Block Party is as "event locations".

Unless there is a different, unpublished USASF rule, I think parents, family, visitors, spectators, etc are in the clear - they are not bound by the above rules. USASF trying to enforce those rules on anyone other than USASF athletes (and maybe coaches, though that should be left up to the gym) is a complete overstep of their power. They have no jurisdiction anywhere except wherever their vaguely stated "Worlds event locations" are. USASF cannot control what their visitors do in the rest of the park or off property.

Oh wow nice catches--the language about this is definitely confusing. In 2018, the language on page 15 changed from "any of the venues" to "any venue." i think USASF was intending to expand the scope of their rule with that change, but forgot to edit the language on page 17. (love your analysis of how the guidelines are generally ambiguous as to the definition of World/event location/venue)

I also cannot find any rules impacting parents or visitors.

I agree with the sentiment expressed a few pages back that this is all for insurance purposes. If USASF is affirmatively notified of risky behavior at their event, like underage drinking (say by people sending screenshots of imprudent social media posts), their insurer would want them to show that they have taken steps to minimize that behavior, like having a harsh policy.

IMO the thing that crosses the line is that USASF says they will call law enforcement for drug/alcohol violations. See page 15 . Plenty of private organizations especially sporting organizations have really wide ranging bans on drugs that apply whether the athletes are at an event or not (like anti-doping rules). But they just punish those athletes within the rules of the private organization, like by not letting them compete or stripping them of medals. They don't also call the police. And I don't think calling the police is necessary to meet requirements for insurance. That's weird. It turns into a private organization taking a law enforcement role. (which frankly I think is actually risky--opens USASF up to lawsuits by wrongfully arrested people. Likely unsuccessful lawsuits, but even getting rid of dumb lawsuits costs $$$).

 

[UCFKnights07]

Oh wow nice catches--the language about this is definitely confusing. In 2018, the language on page 15 changed from "any of the venues" to "any venue." i think USASF was intending to expand the scope of their rule with that change, but forgot to edit the language on page 17. (love your analysis of how the guidelines are generally ambiguous as to the definition of World/event location/venue)

I also cannot find any rules impacting parents or visitors.

I agree with the sentiment expressed a few pages back that this is all for insurance purposes. If USASF is affirmatively notified of risky behavior at their event, like underage drinking (say by people sending screenshots of imprudent social media posts), their insurer would want them to show that they have taken steps to minimize that behavior, like having a harsh policy.

IMO the thing that crosses the line is that USASF says they will call law enforcement for drug/alcohol violations. See page 15 . Plenty of private organizations especially sporting organizations have really wide ranging bans on drugs that apply whether the athletes are at an event or not (like anti-doping rules). But they just punish those athletes within the rules of the private organization, like by not letting them compete or stripping them of medals. They don't also call the police. And I don't think calling the police is necessary to meet requirements for insurance. That's weird. It turns into a private organization taking a law enforcement role. (which frankly I think is actually risky--opens USASF up to lawsuits by wrongfully arrested people. Likely unsuccessful lawsuits, but even getting rid of dumb lawsuits costs $$$).

Plus i dont think orlando police want to spend their weekend at disney warning teenagers all weekend.

 

[AshleyErin]

Over-arching or not, I just hope the USASF follows through with this policy, because we all know their track record with safety related things :rolleyes:
This could easily turn into another throw away rule that exists but is not really enforced

Honestly, as ridiculous as I find portions of this policy, I am fully supportive of any steps they take to curb the crazy behaviour of some at worlds

 

[alpaca]

This is a little off topic but I just went swimsuit shopping with my teenager. I asked her why all the suits were so revealing and had their butts showing. She said to me "Have you seen the photos from world's so far?" and her implication was that the athletes at Worlds were clearly showing a lot more skin.

So my point is, yes the world is watching your social media posts at World's. My young teenager in random town USA is deciding what is acceptable based on those. I am happy to see that USASF is at least making an attempt to keep alcohol and drug use off social media when it relates to their event.

 

[KPep]

I don't remember anything mentionned about spectators in the webinar. You guys should be fine.

And the USASF staff is THERE. They are constantly walking around the resort. I wonder if they'll catch anything...

 

[catlady]

Oh wow nice catches--the language about this is definitely confusing. In 2018, the language on page 15 changed from "any of the venues" to "any venue." i think USASF was intending to expand the scope of their rule with that change, but forgot to edit the language on page 17. (love your analysis of how the guidelines are generally ambiguous as to the definition of World/event location/venue)

I also cannot find any rules impacting parents or visitors.

I agree with the sentiment expressed a few pages back that this is all for insurance purposes. If USASF is affirmatively notified of risky behavior at their event, like underage drinking (say by people sending screenshots of imprudent social media posts), their insurer would want them to show that they have taken steps to minimize that behavior, like having a harsh policy.

IMO the thing that crosses the line is that USASF says they will call law enforcement for drug/alcohol violations. See page 15 . Plenty of private organizations especially sporting organizations have really wide ranging bans on drugs that apply whether the athletes are at an event or not (like anti-doping rules). But they just punish those athletes within the rules of the private organization, like by not letting them compete or stripping them of medals. They don't also call the police. And I don't think calling the police is necessary to meet requirements for insurance. That's weird. It turns into a private organization taking a law enforcement role. (which frankly I think is actually risky--opens USASF up to lawsuits by wrongfully arrested people. Likely unsuccessful lawsuits, but even getting rid of dumb lawsuits costs $$$).

In the past, many businesses, churches, schools, sports swept things under the rug, because it was they said-they said and hard to prove. With cell phones things are definitely changing. I agree insurance companies are going to require no tolerance policies for coverage when it comes to youth events, but I also believe that would include calling law enforcement on illegal behavior versus these organizations doing the whole "hear no evil, see no evil" scenario. This is a USASF event, and just like if it were your event, if you are aware of underage drinking/drugs/drunkenness and do nothing, if they get injured/assault someone/have an accident, you can be held liable. If someone sends you a pic/video (visible proof) and it's a person(s) at your event or home, you have to do something, and in this case, it's easier to call the police than calling around trying to get parent, guardian, or chaperone number(s) of someone you may or may not know.

 

[coacha]

IMO the thing that crosses the line is that USASF says they will call law enforcement for drug/alcohol violations. See page 15 . Plenty of private organizations especially sporting organizations have really wide ranging bans on drugs that apply whether the athletes are at an event or not (like anti-doping rules). But they just punish those athletes within the rules of the private organization, like by not letting them compete or stripping them of medals. They don't also call the police. And I don't think calling the police is necessary to meet requirements for insurance. That's weird. It turns into a private organization taking a law enforcement role. (which frankly I think is actually risky--opens USASF up to lawsuits by wrongfully arrested people. Likely unsuccessful lawsuits, but even getting rid of dumb lawsuits costs $$$).

Underage drinking is illegal. Serving minors is illegal. Most drug use is illegal. Why should you not inform law enforcement?

Furthermore, God forbid something awful did happen, and you knew about it and DIDN'T call law enforcement, guess who's now open to liability?

 

[caffeineandglitter]

In the past, many businesses, churches, schools, sports swept things under the rug, because it was they said-they said and hard to prove. With cell phones things are definitely changing. I agree insurance companies are going to require no tolerance policies for coverage when it comes to youth events, but I also believe that would include calling law enforcement on illegal behavior versus these organizations doing the whole "hear no evil, see no evil" scenario. This is a USASF event, and just like if it were your event, if you are aware of underage drinking/drugs/drunkenness and do nothing, if they get injured/assault someone/have an accident, you can be held liable. If someone sends you a pic/video (visible proof) and it's a person(s) at your event or home, you have to do something, and in this case, it's easier to call the police than calling around trying to get parent, guardian, or chaperone number(s) of someone you may or may not know.

That’s a good point about calling law enforcement bc you may not be able to get ahold of a chaperone. . I didn’t think of that.



The thing I’m not sure about is about informing law enforcement after the fact. Say USASF gets a pic on Sunday of an underage athlete consuming alcohol on Friday. The dangerous and illegal situation is over. I think informing law enforcement at that point might be irrelevant? There’s no need to mitigate an ongoing dangerous situation...

 

[california cheer mom]

Saw my first alcohol photos last night from an open team on Instagram, curious to see if IASF is actually going to be watching social media.

 

[catlady]

That’s a good point about calling law enforcement bc you may not be able to get ahold of a chaperone. . I didn’t think of that.



The thing I’m not sure about is about informing law enforcement after the fact. Say USASF gets a pic on Sunday of an underage athlete consuming alcohol on Friday. The dangerous and illegal situation is over. I think informing law enforcement at that point might be irrelevant? There’s no need to mitigate an ongoing dangerous situation...

I really don't know, but I don't believe for a second they want to police or turn people in. My guess is if there is the slightest chance they could be held liable if they don't turn pics/video of illegal activity over, they aren't go to hesitate. I guess there's always the chance if someone is assaulted they wouldn't come forward right away. I can't imagine the police would do anything with those pics/videos except write up a report noting the location and timeline, and keep it just in case someone comes forward.