All-Star Anyone Else Notice Alot Of 12 Year Old Flyers On The Floor?

[cinderella]

I like this idea, but I think we'd need less age divisions in order to make it work. For instance:

8 and under- Youth
9-12 Juniors
13+ Seniors

You can kiss the Youth Level 5 division goodbye then. And I wouldn't expect a huge turnout for Junior 5 either.

 

[cinderella]

I have a question: What if the age for Senior teams was changed to 14 and up and previous to the change, a gym had a Level 5 Senior team consisting of let's say 12 girls 14 and up, but 8 girls that were 12 or 13. These girls were the gym's only level 5 athletes. What do you suggest the gym/the girls do?

 

[socratesofcheer]

I have a question: What if the age for Senior teams was changed to 14 and up and previous to the change, a gym had a Level 5 Senior team consisting of let's say 12 girls 14 and up, but 8 girls that were 12 or 13. These girls were the gym's only level 5 athletes. What do you suggest the gym/the girls do?

IF (and thats a big IF), the age grid were to change, there would be a provision to grandfather those affected athletes. I'm assuming this would be similar to the super senior rule a couple years ago.

 

[yourfavoritebackspot]

You can kiss the Youth Level 5 division goodbye then. And I wouldn't expect a huge turnout for Junior 5 either.

maybe then athletes would actually have somthing to look foward to as they get older.

 

[kristenthegreat]

You can kiss the Youth Level 5 division goodbye then. And I wouldn't expect a huge turnout for Junior 5 either.

I wasn't aware this division had a lot of teams in it anyway, and it's already on the list for alteration/elimination. Both are, actually, but I doubt the junior 5 elimination will go through.

Youth 4 and 5 teams are the exception (and in the case of youth 5, the BIG exception) not the rule. Plenty of gyms have coped with how things are and will continue to do so if they switch the senior age ranges. Which I'm totally not against.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Ok, I will amend my initial statement:
13+ Seniors
9-12 Juniors
5-8 Youth
5 and under Minis

Small caps at 16
Large caps at 30

Levels-
Mini division stays at current level 1 rules... will not split into any other division
1- No BHS allowed, one leg stunts up to prep, two leg extensions + straight ride tosses allowed ONLY in jr/sr
2- Standing bhs, TT BHS, No flips in running, one leg extended, one trick baskets + two leg twists ONLY in jr/sr
3- Any flips in running (tuck, layout, etc), standing skills and jumps to tumble only with handspring series or bhs tucks, twists from extended one leg, 2 trick baskets + two leg doubles + release moves to 2 feet ONLY in jr/sr
4- Up to one twist in running tumbling, no twists in standing tumbling, jump to tuck, 3 trick basket + single leg double + release move to body position ONLY in jr/sr
5- (Senior only division) Doubles in running, standing fulls, jump to fulls, 4 trick baskets (kick kick double), flipping baskets with no twists, non-twisting flipping mounts without hand contact
6- OPEN division- age 16+... add flipping and twisting mounts, flipping baskets up to 2 twists, and 2 1/2 high pyramids

Yeah? lol

 

[IloveSeniorElite]

Then cheerleading would be just like other sports. Every player on a 11 year old baseball team isn't the same quality. Some are great( level 4-5), some play right field (level 2-3) and some ride the bench (level 1-2).

Since this would be a drastic change to the all star world as we know it, coaches, kids, and routines would have to adjust.

Does this seem familiar to anyone? When I came into the allstar world in 2000 (I'm old, I know) there weren't levels at any competitions we attended. It was simply based on age, I believe it was something like: pee wee, junior prep (youth now-sometimes was called junior varsity), junior, senior prep, senior (varsity). Obviously we evolved from that for a reason, and while I am for a different age grid, setting a solid age grid without leniency might put us right back to our previous problems. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, that is just how I remember things going.

What I wish is that there could be a limit of gyms in an area. For instance, at one point there were 6-8 gyms in my immediate city's area. Because of this, it spread the talent around making each team weak and unsuccessful. For instance, take level 5 where each team might have had 4 or 5 fulls or doubles and were competing small senior 5. If there were 2 gyms in the area as opposed to 6-8, girls could have been able to compete on more successful teams filled with talent. But then that all gets into political thinking and is probably way beyond our problems in cheerleading. Just a thought I've always wish would happen to create less losing teams, and more talented teams. :eek:

 

[Num1Stunta]

isn't this how it used to be?when it was peewees, youth, junior and senior. and i do like this idea, though i'd toss in a mini division too. and then make youth 5-8 and mini 4 and under.

I believe there were even more divisions back then... wasn't it:

Tiny K and under
PeeWee 2nd and under
Youth 4th and under
Jr Prep 6th and under
Jr 9th and under
Sr Prep 11th and under
Sr 12th and under

? Not sure, because that was my first year in all stars I believe...

 

[juscheerthatisall]

while i agree skills look better with larger flyer, u cant knock 12 year olds for being elite athletes, little aj on f5 is throwing a double double, so should she not be on the team because shes "little"? And surely u dont expect her to base so flying is the only option. Also though it may be easier on the bases to stunt with younger girls because of their size it is also harder to stunt with them due to lack of experience/body control. I am perfectly ok with smaller younger flyers as long as they are holding their own not only in the air but in tumbling, jumps, dance etc.

 

[F!ERCE]

Ok, I will amend my initial statement:
13+ Seniors
9-12 Juniors
5-8 Youth
5 and under Minis

Small caps at 16
Large caps at 30

Levels-
Mini division stays at current level 1 rules... will not split into any other division
1- No BHS allowed, one leg stunts up to prep, two leg extensions + straight ride tosses allowed ONLY in jr/sr
2- Standing bhs, TT BHS, No flips in running, one leg extended, one trick baskets + two leg twists ONLY in jr/sr
3- Any flips in running (tuck, layout, etc), standing skills and jumps to tumble only with handspring series or bhs tucks, twists from extended one leg, 2 trick baskets + two leg doubles + release moves to 2 feet ONLY in jr/sr
4- Up to one twist in running tumbling, no twists in standing tumbling, jump to tuck, 3 trick basket + single leg double + release move to body position ONLY in jr/sr
5- (Senior only division) Doubles in running, standing fulls, jump to fulls, 4 trick baskets (kick kick double), flipping baskets with no twists, non-twisting flipping mounts without hand contact
6- OPEN division- age 16+... add flipping and twisting mounts, flipping baskets up to 2 twists, and 2 1/2 high pyramids

Yeah? lol

I like your age ranges. Don't totally agree with the caps (I think small staying 20 and large dropping to 32 would be much more practical in terms of numbers for stunt groups), but they're definitely workable.

I think the levels you have listed really don't allow for proper progression. From running back handsprings straight to layouts? I think having the very "basic" level 1 we have now allows athletes who are just starting to learn the core elements. I imagine athletes who start in level 1 end up with better execution and technicality in their skills as they progress. Having athletes start one legged stunts immediately upon entry into the sport seems like jumping the gun (I guess that's a good phrase) a little bit to me.

 

[yourfavoritebackspot]

I like your age ranges. Don't totally agree with the caps (I think small staying 20 and large dropping to 32 would be much more practical in terms of numbers for stunt groups), but they're definitely workable.

I think the levels you have listed really don't allow for proper progression. From running back handsprings straight to layouts? I think having the very "basic" level 1 we have now allows athletes who are just starting to learn the core elements. I imagine athletes who start in level 1 end up with better execution and technicality in their skills as they progress. Having athletes start one legged stunts immediately upon entry into the sport seems like jumping the gun (I guess that's a good phrase) a little bit to me.

I started youth 1 when I was 11 my birthday made the cut off sept 13. I just turned 14 and have moved up a level a year. I am now a level 4. Last year I was kinda mad I didnt make level 4 and was placed level 3, but jumping from a level 2 to level 4 I would of really strugled. Now I feel very comfy at level 4 and Im still learning diff combo passes I do have basic 5 skills and a full but im more than happy to stay on level 4 for a few yrs to become a very strong level 4 before moving up. Besides im only a freshman and 14 I have something to look forward to as I get older and more powerful, with a wide range of tumble passes and skills

 

[socratesofcheer]

while i agree skills look better with larger flyer, u cant knock 12 year olds for being elite athletes, little aj on f5 is throwing a double double, so should she not be on the team because shes "little"? And surely u dont expect her to base so flying is the only option. Also though it may be easier on the bases to stunt with younger girls because of their size it is also harder to stunt with them due to lack of experience/body control. I am perfectly ok with smaller younger flyers as long as they are holding their own not only in the air but in tumbling, jumps, dance etc.

#1. I don't think anyone is knocking the super-advanced children

#2. If an athlete is throwing a double double, I'd be willing to bet they have excellent body control. ( please don't point out the one gymnast that you know that is a noodle in the air. I am fully aware that they exist)

#3.Lastly, I'm sure that there is that one AMAZING little girl at CA, Top Gun, Cali, Rays, WC, etc., but, are those so few children really the reason to not change the rule?

 

[Num1Stunta]

I like your age ranges. Don't totally agree with the caps (I think small staying 20 and large dropping to 32 would be much more practical in terms of numbers for stunt groups), but they're definitely workable.

I think the levels you have listed really don't allow for proper progression. From running back handsprings straight to layouts? I think having the very "basic" level 1 we have now allows athletes who are just starting to learn the core elements. I imagine athletes who start in level 1 end up with better execution and technicality in their skills as they progress. Having athletes start one legged stunts immediately upon entry into the sport seems like jumping the gun (I guess that's a good phrase) a little bit to me.

Yeah, I was trying to eliminate some of the levels we have, and I knew reading it that it wasn't great... I guess I just thought to me personally, as someone who was not a strong tumbler, I had no problem moving from tucks to layouts. I actually found layouts easier. I guess I just thought if I could do it, anyone could lol... As a tumbling instructor though, i would agree, a lot of kids take time to get that hollow position right for a layout. Idk, I guess I just figure that once you start flipping, you're progressing faster? (ideally) I agree, it's not perfect. I would have to disagree about the one-legs.. holding a one leg at waist vs prep is really not that big of a difference IMO

 

[MRSPIGI]

I

Gymnastics is different, though, as it's an individual sport. You need at least 20 roughly equally skilled athletes to form a cheer team, not just one person. If we add more levels with different skills, we'll narrow the skills each level allows. I think you'd find fewer and smaller groups would have the same skill sets if we got more "specific". IMO, more divisions is not the answer.



Most 12 year olds do not have level 5 skills. Most youth aged kids don't have level 4 and 5 skills. In a perfect world, there would be a perfect skill and age level for everyone, but that's simply not practical. So, do we cater to the exception? Or do we set the age grid to what MOST athletes will fit?

Keeping the age grid centered around those rare little ones who have a double at age 12 doesn't make much sense to me.

isn't that maybe why there is flexability in the age rules right now? So that the coaches that know the skills and the maturity of these athletes can make the right decision on which team the athlete should compete on? Cheerleading is a team sport. Every athlete on the team has their role. It could be tumbling, flying, basing, back spotting, leading, mood making, etc. What ever it is, everbody is different. Coaches will find what talent is needed to build the best team possible. I hope it's not only about everyone having all the level 5 skills.

 

[Num1Stunta]

I
isn't that maybe why there is flexability in the age rules right now? So that the coaches that know the skills and the maturity of these athletes can make the right decision on which team the athlete should compete on? Cheerleading is a team sport. Every athlete on the team has their role. It could be tumbling, flying, basing, back spotting, leading, mood making, etc. What ever it is, everbody is different. Coaches will find what talent is needed to build the best team possible. I hope it's not only about everyone having all the level 5 skills.

This is very true... I also want to take this opportunity to re-iterate that I think we need to re-size these divisions for that exact reason. If you're building a small team to 14, 15, or 16 per team, and large to only 28 or 30 ish, you can produce more teams that are on-level. Say you have 6 level 4 youth kids in your entire program. If you only need 14 to be small, you're almost halfway there on majority skills. just saying lol