All-Star Bullying

[King]

As a parent and educator, it is often difficult to hover in the "middle". Depending upon the situation and the effect it has on a child, gravitating to one side or the other may be necessary.

It is extremely important, in my opinion, that adults take the initiative to positively affect the children in their presence and teach them to value the individual. We all have differing opinions and experiences, which shape the way we all behave. What I consider to be appropriate conversation, another individual may see as being inappropriate; therefore, when dealing with social media, I have taught my children to read what you post at least twice prior to posting. If it can be misconstrued in any manner, reconsider what you have typed.

Let me answer it with examples of how I believe I will try to raise my daughter (and maybe future other kids one day).

Do I want my child bullied? No, of course not. I never would want to do anything to ever hurt my kid (but how realistic is that?)

Do I expect her to be bullied at some point? Yes.

What is the most effective way I can help her out? First, I think expecting educators to stop bullying is a bit naive. It may not happen in the classroom and it may not happen on the bus but it WILL happen. Those moments when no teachers are around it happens. Unless we want microphones recording everything each child says with strict punishment it is gonna happen. So I have to raise my child to have a bit of a backbone and educate her when she makes choices that COULD lead to bullying. Peer pressure and bullying are not terribly unrelated. And there is a lot of peer pressure in schools to do certain things and fit in. Some are good, some are bad, some are inane. And, scary as heck as it is for me, I won't get to make those choices for my kid on what to do. All I can do is prepare her to make the smartest choices we can. When times are tough we decide if we need to throw in the towel and go somewhere else or tough it out. It is only when we are tested do we find out how tough we can be and how tough we can get. Bullying SUCKS. Plain and simple. But I cant prevent her from ever being bullied as much as I can prevent her from falling down when she runs around and skinning her knees. I am just there to help stand her up, brush her off, put some neosporin on, and explain to her why running down hill at full speed when you have your fathers uncoordinated genes is not a smart idea.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

What is the difference between peer pressure and bullying?

??? Peer pressure is not at all defined by the manner in which you approach someone. Peer pressure can as easily be positive as negative. If everyone in your peer group behaves a certain way, most people tend to try to 'fit in'.

That desire to be part of a pack starts in grade school and continues through your life - all the way to participation in the Board of Directors in a corporation and membership in the Bridge Club at the retirement home.

You can't experience peer pressure from bullies unless you are a bully yourself. Otherwise they aren't your peers.

 

[King]

??? Peer pressure is not at all defined by the manner in which you approach someone. Peer pressure can as easily be positive as negative. If everyone in your peer group behaves a certain way, most people tend to try to 'fit in'.

That desire to be part of a pack starts in grade school and continues through your life - all the way to participation in the Board of Directors in a corporation and membership in the Bridge Club at the retirement home.

You can't experience peer pressure from bullies unless you are a bully yourself. Otherwise they aren't your peers.

Bullies can be your peers or be those in charge. The definition is one who uses strength or power to intimidate those who are weaker. So... how are some coaches not a bully? They use their position of power to intimidate people to compete and win. Is it just acceptable bullying if they are acceptable?

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

So I have to raise my child to have a bit of a backbone and educate her when she makes choices that COULD lead to bullying.

This. I have spent the first nine years of my daughter's life teaching her to "stay sweet, turn the other cheek and walk away" and have spent the last six months trying to undo nine years of teaching. My daughter was so sweet, and thought everybody was her friend, and was completely unwilling to talk to her teachers about what her "friends" at school were doing & saying to her. The result: a child who is a complete doormat, has no backbone, and was lashing out at home due to the stress from school. I still haven't figured out perfect solutions to help her, but I am certainly not impressing the same ideas on my five year old. Who, BTW, may not even barely be thirty pounds yet but if you mess with her she is a head bobbin, finger snappin mess. And I don't care. Given the two options, between having one with no spine and one who has attitude, I would rather have the attitude at this point. I would actually rather have them both in the middle, but, I'm still trying to figure out how to get them both there since the methods for acheiving that are signifigantly different given their individual situations. Do whatever you need to do, but give that child the ability to stick up for herself and say "I don't care who you are, but I'm not taking your s***. Not today, not ever."

 

[King]

This. I have spent the first nine years of my daughter's life teaching her to "stay sweet, turn the other cheek and walk away" and have spent the last six months trying to undo nine years of teaching. My daughter was so sweet, and thought everybody was her friend, and was completely unwilling to talk to her teachers about what her "friends" at school were doing & saying to her. The result: a child who is a complete doormat, has no backbone, and was lashing out at home due to the stress from school. I still haven't figured out perfect solutions to help her, but I am certainly not impressing the same ideas on my five year old. Who, BTW, may not even barely be thirty pounds yet but if you mess with her she is a head bobbin, finger snappin mess. And I don't care. Given the two options, between having one with no spine and one who has attitude, I would rather have the attitude at this point. I would actually rather have them both in the middle, but, I'm still trying to figure out how to get them both there since the methods for acheiving that are signifigantly different given their individual situations. Do whatever you need to do, but give that child the ability to stick up for herself and say "I don't care who you are, but I'm not taking your s***. Not today, not ever."

now that is parenting!

we can do all we can raise victims or we can raise strong kids. and yes, we might bust our butts and at the end of the day our kids may still be meek (there is nothing wrong with that) but at least we didnt set them up to not be as strong and confident as they can. I want my child to be all that they possibly can be. I need to recongize what her strengths and weaknesses are and plan out what comes best to her. I have a cute smart slightly uncoordinated child who is gonna be tallish. I have the ability to raise someone who could be an AMAZING flyer... but maybe it isn't in her genes. Maybe she is meant to be a piano player. Cool, lets not force the issue and do the best we can to work with what we got. Its about playing the cards you were dealt and winning the hand anyway.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

Bullies can be your peers or be those in charge. The definition is one who uses strength or power to intimidate those who are weaker. So... how are some coaches not a bully? They use their position of power to intimidate people to compete and win. Is it just acceptable bullying if they are acceptable?

I'm not going to deny this, it is absolutely true. But my reference to peer pressure is to positive peer pressure. Allowing the option for the majority of the participants - the courteous posters - to bring these threads back on track. Those are the peers you hope will eventually influence the poster, even if it takes a year or two. It's happened, you see those former bullies here and they are good, contributing, team members. As a leader, would you rather see that or jump in and strong-arm people into compliance?

It doesn't have to be direct, I've seen people try to turn threads around by interjecting humor, by ignoring jibes at themselves, by returning to the original topic - again and again - until the bully gives up. I look at those posters as our future leaders. They have what it takes to succeed in the real world. Shutting down a thread denies them too.

Would you agree that strong-arming someone into behaving the way you want them to only stops the behavior this one instant? It does nothing to coach them in the direction you would like to see them go. You would never do this with your daughter. She's going to come to you with some arguments and ideas you aren't going to like. You won't lock her out.

It would be the same as you kicking a troubled or rebellious teenage athlete out of your gym without you or someone else first taking time to work with them one-on-one, talking to them or trying to be a guide or mentor to them. I don't see you doing that. Yes, there will always be some individuals you will never change. But I'd bet there are a lot more you could.

 

[King]

I'm not going to deny this, it is absolutely true. But my reference to peer pressure is to positive peer pressure. Allowing the option for the majority of the participants - the courteous posters - to bring these threads back on track. Those are the peers you hope will eventually influence the poster, even if it takes a year or two. It's happened, you see those former bullies here and they are good, contributing, team members. As a leader, would you rather see that or jump in and strong-arm people into compliance?

It doesn't have to be direct, I've seen people try to turn threads around by interjecting humor, by ignoring jibes at themselves, by returning to the original topic - again and again - until the bully gives up. I look at those posters as our future leaders. They have what it takes to succeed in the real world. Shutting down a thread denies them too.

Would you agree that strong-arming someone into behaving the way you want them to only stops the behavior this one instant? It does nothing to coach them in the direction you would like to see them go. You would never do this with your daughter. She's going to come to you with some arguments and ideas you aren't going to like. You won't lock her out.

It would be the same as you kicking a troubled or rebellious teenage athlete out of your gym without you or someone else first taking time to work with them one-on-one, talking to them or trying to be a guide or mentor to them. I don't see you doing that. Yes, there will always be some individuals you will never change. But I'd bet there are a lot more you could.

Lots of times those threads do come back on track. You are speaking as if threads are locked with a quickness and never come back. There are lots of controls in place to prevent things from getting out of hand a la ProX. Let me compare it to the stock market in 1929. There was no control and everything spun wildly out of control and was there for a long time. Flash forward to 2009 and THOUGH it was bad the controls in place keep the stock market letting the bottom drop out. The ecosystem of a board is a precarious thing. I discussed with a few admins of some other major boards and we are no unique. We have the proper controls in place to prevent spamming and drive by posting. The logging controls were lacking for when posts were adjusted and I have now fixed those. Outside of a small group complaining about how things are going the board has continued to function normally with lots of agreements and disagreements.

There is no message board utopia. It is ebb and flow of ideas and moods that go up and down. And this board is insanely large. 50,000 people visited in may. This month were already up to 40,000. (April hits 80,000 because of Worlds). Thats a lot of people to be moderating as they come and go and post (and were not even that large in the World of message boards). Mostly everything we do is reactive (instead of pro-active) because of sheer volume. Do I think this place is perfect? No. But it is the least worst option (a concept that is hard for many people to grasp). There have been 9 attempted social media sites since fierce board went to its own server. None of them have taken off and lasted. Why?

 

[TheUltimateFan]

Outside of a small group complaining about how things are going the board has continued to function normally with lots of agreements and disagreements.

There is no message board utopia. It is ebb and flow of ideas and moods that go up and down. And this board is insanely large. 50,000 people visited in may. This month were already up to 40,000. (April hits 80,000 because of Worlds). Thats a lot of people to be moderating as they come and go and post (and were not even that large in the World of message boards). Mostly everything we do is reactive (instead of pro-active) because of sheer volume. Do I think this place is perfect? No. But it is the least worst option (a concept that is hard for many people to grasp). There have been 9 attempted social media sites since fierce board went to its own server. None of them have taken off and lasted. Why?

No there isn't a message board utopia. But I don't think you can assume that the small group that complains only represent themselves. And sometimes it only takes a small band of rebels to mobilize a revolution. I don't know what happened on ProX at the end - I had left the board about a year earlier. But there was only a small band of people speaking out then too. Apparently they represented the thoughts and feelings of a lot more people than was apparent. And in the end one person shut the board down. Not the mob.

One last thought, then I will let the dead horse stay down....
Is the best way to deal with an immature child that talks back to tape their mouth shut and, when they still don't play the way you want them to, lock them out of the house? To me THAT is bullying.

JMO.

 

[King]

Time will tell. And now there is an alternative to people who really hate the way things work around here. Choice is a good thing and I'd imagine if this place is that bad there must be a ton of activity over there.

 

[CoachTamara]

Time will tell. And now there is an alternative to people who really hate the way things work around here. Choice is a good thing and I'd imagine if this place is that bad there must be a ton of activity over there.

THIS! I tried to tell this to the people that were so outraged-you should be happy. You now have a choice, and you can decide what kind of cheer board you want to belong too. It's a win-win for everyone.

TheUltimateFan I really like your comment about locking the kids out, and it made me think. I was bullied as a kid in middle school, and it ended when we finally picked up and moved across the country and left our entire family. If I had the choice? Yes, I would tape their mouth shut and lock them out. Because those kids (and adults in this case) KNOW what they are doing. They know their comments hurt, and can really impact people. The reason they do it is because of attention, and allowing them to continue on and receive that attention is not going to help the situation. I don't think it's bullying to say "your negative comments are not welcome here anymore." It's simply showing them that there are consequences for their hurtful actions.

 

[King]

THIS! I tried to tell this to the people that were so outraged-you should be happy. You now have a choice, and you can decide what kind of cheer board you want to belong too. It's a win-win for everyone.

TheUltimateFan I really like your comment about locking the kids out, and it made me think. I was bullied as a kid in middle school, and it ended when we finally picked up and moved across the country and left our entire family. If I had the choice? Yes, I would tape their mouth shut and lock them out. Because those kids (and adults in this case) KNOW what they are doing. They know their comments hurt, and can really impact people. The reason they do it is because of attention, and allowing them to continue on and receive that attention is not going to help the situation. I don't think it's bullying to say "your negative comments are not welcome here anymore." It's simply showing them that there are consequences for their hurtful actions.

And maybe things are quite different over there and no one is ever banned and threads or posts are never deleted.

 

[CoachTamara]

And maybe things are quite different over there and no one is ever banned and threads or posts are never deleted.

And mass chaos ensues!

But, we already know that is not true because members have already been banned over there. So, you pretty much have this message board minus the history and large number of members and posts, which means people check it out, see the lack of information, and move on.

 

[SmileyRyleigh]

How about bullying behind pm's? say a thread doesn't go your way or you just put the little popcorn man on the thread because you know its going to cause drama- and the creator of the thread pm's you and starts going crazy because you down voted their thread, or you posted one comment in their thread that you got a ton of shimmies on, but it doesn't quite agree with their opinion? Where does the bullying stop there? Some people say what they want behind closed doors, but when confronted about it deny it.

 

[King]

You can always add an admin to PM conversations.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

THIS! I tried to tell this to the people that were so outraged-you should be happy. You now have a choice, and you can decide what kind of cheer board you want to belong too. It's a win-win for everyone.

TheUltimateFan I really like your comment about locking the kids out, and it made me think. I was bullied as a kid in middle school, and it ended when we finally picked up and moved across the country and left our entire family. If I had the choice? Yes, I would tape their mouth shut and lock them out. Because those kids (and adults in this case) KNOW what they are doing. They know their comments hurt, and can really impact people. The reason they do it is because of attention, and allowing them to continue on and receive that attention is not going to help the situation. I don't think it's bullying to say "your negative comments are not welcome here anymore." It's simply showing them that there are consequences for their hurtful actions.

kingston played the game like a champion. It would have been much easier for him to lock me from the thread or kick me off the board. So even if you don't agree with what I said, my point was made. ;)

And joytomylifex I do agree that when reasonable efforts have been exhausted then it is time to tape the mouth, lock the door. It's when a thread is locked or deleted without any effort to bring it back on track (step #1, locking out just the offensive poster), that punishes everyone and nobody learns anything - you lose opposing viewpoints to choose from, information you may not have known or just exposure to old-fashioned debating skills.