All-Star Cea Chicago

[AlwaysLearning]

I don't think any of this is black or white and I think it is wrong to accuse someone of not having integrity if they choose to do what is best for them or their child.

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Agreed which is why I always try to preface my responses with "depending on the circumstances". We can say what we think we'll do, but until we are faced with such a decision we don't really know for sure.

 

[tumbleyoda]

This is an interesting line of discussion in terms of expectations v. reality.

See also:

If your kid was on what you both thought was going to be a Worlds/Summit team (confirmed as a Worlds team at tryouts), and it becomes R5 or 4 at some point (due to injuries, lack of solid skills, etc.)

New Gym opens up and has Worlds/Summit teams. You have no contract or agreement saying you need to stay, other than knowing you forfeit your money. If we're talking Worlds, this is within the appropriate time frame to secure a release.

Do you stay?

I would stay and my daughters would stay. At the end of the year you may quit or change if you like.

We had this exact scenario happen to us a few years ago the year before Summit was introduced. Team had been a Worlds team the previous two years. However with the amount of athletes we lost to school cheer and graduating 2 extremely tall Senior back spots we weren't sure if we would be able to have the team truly be Level 5 in stunting due to training new Level 5 backspots, new bases and two new Level 5 fliers. We are very conscious of looking like we belong in a division, regardless to if we win or lose. We gave them every opportunity to push through. At the end of the Summer we met with them and played out scenarios with the kids and parents. We could go Level 5, get an At Large bid possibly if we chose to travel all over the country and play the bid game, go Restricted 5 and train for the year with the possibility of going for an At Large bid on our regular competition schedule, or go Level 4 , combine with the higher skilled Level 3 and 4's and rebuild for the next year.

A group of 5 girls banded together to leave if we decided not to be a Worlds eligible team. All best friends. Have cheered together for many years. They didn't want Restricted 5 either since they had the advanced tumbling to be on a Worlds team and had been to Worlds twice already. They thought it was beneath them. I literally had coaches from other states calling me telling me what was going on and they were planning to leave en masse. I met with them and begged them not to force our hand, because if one athlete left the team it would change everything. Well one left. We decided to do what we we thought was best for the over all program and went Sr 4 to rebuild. The others decided or were forced to remain, even though it was obvious they didn't want to. We ended up going to Senior 4 and had an amazing year.

If all 5 of those girls left, it would of been a major blow to our small gym. Major. We would of had an even harder time rebuilding in the cheer department. We might still be struggling years later. This can affect the psyche of gyms more than many think, and it is worse when it and if it feels like another gym helped stir the pot. After all if the good kids they look up to leave, why shouldn't they? Honestly this is what made us diversify into gymnastics and power tumbling because the cheerleading world is so fickle chasing after bids, jackets and rings. We didn't want to lose our business over something we couldn't control.

The girl that left ended up returning 6 months later. As bad as it hurt us when she left, we took her back in to tumbling classes for the rest of the year. She will graduate with us this year with the same girls that she left behind - minus one. There was absolute NOTHING wrong with the gym she went to. Our styles are just different and she had been with our style so long it was hard for her to change styles. We still remained friends with the other gym coaches both then and now. Sometimes the fit just isn't the same as you think it will be. Doesn't make it bad or worse; just different.

 

[tumbleyoda]

There are definitely a lot of hypotheticals here that no one really knows the real answers to.


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IMO only two people know the whole truth of the whole situation: Darlene and Kaley. Almost everything else is partial knowledge or hypothesis.

 

[tumbleyoda]

This whole situation is a mess. Which brings me to 2 points.

Am I surprised this happening in IL? No. That place is a hotbed for cheer drama for whatever reason.

Am I surprised CEA is involved even though it's indirectly? No.

Why Courtney would want to attach her name to this mess is beyond me but we'll see how this plays out come next year.

I don't have a bone in this fight but from what I've observed personally, any gym that I've seen that has been formed out of revenge has never lasted more than a few years. I certainly hope that's not the case here because those children just burned a lot of bridges.


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We typically dont see this in Southern Illinois. We have issues but nothing like this. Our big issue is losing kids to school cheer which then radically restructures how you plan on putting teams together. Teams you thought you would have you no longer can make because you don't have the numbers, right age ranges or skill sets necessary.

 

[Tator tots]

I don't think any of this is black or white and I think it is wrong to accuse someone of not having integrity if they choose to do what is best for them or their child.

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A few years ago, a team was formed, lots of potential in the summer and lots of promises. But most knew by the end of November/early December, it wasn't working. There's was no major smoking gun, just a little more miserable as the months went on. By the time worlds came up, most of the team were mentally done and as you can guess, bombed at worlds. After worlds, many left for other gyms and a few of the athletes didn't even bother to continue with all-star because their view of this sport had changed.

Looking back....I wouldn't have let that commitment/loyalty thing get in the way and should've left mid-season, when it was clear that is was a mess. Many months and thousands of dollars wasted.

 

[RaRaMama]

A few years ago, a team was formed, lots of potential in the summer and lots of promises. But most knew by the end of November/early December, it wasn't working. There's was no major smoking gun, just a little more miserable as the months went on. By the time worlds came up, most of the team were mentally done and as you can guess, bombed at worlds. After worlds, many left for another gym and a few of the athletes didn't even bother to continue with all-star because their view of this sport had changed.

Looking back....I wouldn't have let that commitment/loyalty thing get in the way and should've left mid-season, when it was clear that is was a mess. Many months and thousands of dollars wasted.

I'm interested to know-you mention potential in the summer and promises made. What contributed to the downward spiral? Horrible coaching? Athletes not meshing? Lack of dedication as the season went on? I'm just curious.


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[SL&AM]

This is an interesting line of discussion in terms of expectations v. reality.

See also:

If your kid was on what you both thought was going to be a Worlds/Summit team (confirmed as a Worlds team at tryouts), and it becomes R5 or 4 at some point (due to injuries, lack of solid skills, etc.)

New Gym opens up and has Worlds/Summit teams. You have no contract or agreement saying you need to stay, other than knowing you forfeit your money. If we're talking Worlds, this is within the appropriate time frame to secure a release.

Do you stay?

Depends on age, imo.

 

[ErinS]

This is an interesting line of discussion in terms of expectations v. reality.

See also:

If your kid was on what you both thought was going to be a Worlds team (confirmed as a Worlds team at tryouts), and it becomes R5 or 4 at some point (due to injuries, lack of solid skills, etc.)

New Gym opens up and has Worlds teams. You have no contract or agreement saying you need to stay, other than knowing you forfeit your money. If we're talking Worlds, this is within the appropriate time frame to secure a release.

Do you stay?

My kid is staying with whichever gym promises me that my kid will be the star. My loyalty lies with my child being point of everything




Jk my future kid will be Backrow Beyoncé just like its mama. Carry on.





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[Tator tots]

I'm interested to know-you mention potential in the summer and promises made. What contributed to the downward spiral? Horrible coaching? Athletes not meshing? Lack of dedication as the season went on? I'm just curious.


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All of the above and then some. But the basic issue came down to not having enough level 5 athletes to field a worlds team. Lot's of Susie's on the team, lot's of Susie's moms in the parent room, and some coaches that were listening to all Susie's and their moms. It was a hotbed of drama on a daily basis.

 

[AlwaysLearning]

@tumbleyoda thank you for telling your story. I've seen your posts on diversification, but I understand them more now.

I am a firm believer that one gym doesn't fit all. I don't get upset if what works for us doesn't work for the next person. It's important to leave with class and not burn bridges though because you may want to return if what you thought might be a better fit sometimes doesn't turn out that way.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Honestly this is what made us diversify into gymnastics and power tumbling because the cheerleading world is so fickle chasing after bids, jackets and rings.

This is good advice for any new cheer business.

 

[tumbleyoda]

This is good advice for any new cheer business.

It is. This is why I tell to advise any new, micro or small gym that asks me for advice or clinics that they should do it, if they are capable. As much as we like All Stars it is simply too fickle, too many scoring inconsistencies, and too many unrealistic expectations to put all our eggs in that basket. having the business be strong and financially healthy is more important than a trophy, ring, jacket or globe. And as I have said numerous times we could win Worlds and not gain one new student in our program because that is not our demographic. But almost all our tumbling classes have waitlists, school teams begging to come to our gym if we can find room for them and most of all our kids are having fun.

 

[MissCongeniality]

Question: if this new gym/team plans to go to Worlds wouldn't the athletes who switched and already competed for ICE have to obtain releases from ICE to set foot on that Worlds floor?

Also, while I'm all for commitment, why is it ok for the gyms to replace kids on their team if a better tumbling/stunting Susie shows up mid-season. Isn't it a 2-way street?

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Also, while I'm all for commitment, why is it ok for the gyms to replace kids on their team if a better tumbling/stunting Susie shows up mid-season. Isn't it a 2-way street?

This is what I have had to come around to, as someone who used to have a fit when kids I coached decided to tumble elsewhere, etc.

 

[TealShades]

My kid is staying with whichever gym promises me that my kid will be the star. My loyalty lies with my child being point of everything




Jk my future kid will be Backrow Beyoncé just like its mama. Carry on.





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Nobody puts Beyoncé in the backrow ;). Haha a little dirty dancing humor.

And @tumbleyoda can you be my life coach because you're an awesome guy :)