Cheer Pet Peeves?

[cheermomforever]

Seriously?

Why do they need to be called anything other than "flyer"?

To take that a step farther, why would you refer to my daughter, my child, using a phrase that you know is often associated with bitterness and hatefulness? Why do you find it "pretty darn amusing"? Why would you not expect people to be "bent out of shape... over hearing that term used"?

My daughter is now 11 and yes, she is a flyer. This will be her fourth year of cheer and she has always been a flyer on a Senior team. The first year the USASF newer age requirements weren't in place and the second year the small gym where she cheered didn't attend USASF events. Last year she was a flyer for a Senior team and she was the youngest on the team. She will again be a flyer on a Senior team this season. She is also basing on a Youth team and couldn't be happier about that.

Is she significantly smaller in stature than the majority of the girls on her Senior team? Yes. Yes she is.

So what?

Because she is smaller does that mean she doesn't need to be a flyer on a Senior team? Are you assuming that because she is smaller the only reason she is able to stay in the air is because of her bases? That she has no strength or not enough skill to do her job as a flyer?

Perhaps you believe that the only reason she is on a Senior team is because she is smaller and can be "tossed around like a rag doll"? That she couldn't possibly be a good dancer, an amazing jumper, and be one of the strongest tumblers on the team?

Here is how it is: The cheer industry tends to use smaller girls as flyers. That is just the way it is. I don't know if it is right or wrong, but it is what it is. It is also apparent that the same smaller girls will most likely grow and then become bases. Not all of them, but most.

I'm fairly confident that my own daughter will move to a full time base position eventually and I am just fine with that. In fact, she is a total beast as a base on her Youth 4 team. She is extremely proud that she has been able to learn level 4 basing when the only other time she based was at level 1.

Cheer is a team sport. That means there is a place for all body types. In fact, it takes all body types to make a team.

Take a look at my avatar. Those two boys are football players. The one on the left is a linebacker. The one on the right is an offensive lineman. The one on the left runs a 4.5 40 yard dash. The one on the right runs a 5.0 40 yard dash. The one on the right is about 3" taller and 50 lbs. heavier than the one on the left. The one on the left is a holy terror to anyone carrying the ball and the one on the right is your worst nightmare if you are trying to get to the quarterback. The one on the left is recognized again and again for sacks, tackles, and interceptions. The one on the right is never recognized at all. In fact the one on the right plays what is called a "non-skilled" position.

The lineman doesn't get "props". What he does get are team stats in the way of offensive yards, passing yards, and rushing yards. Those stats are his, and the entire offensive line's, closest thing to recognition. Funny thing though, none of the teams accomplishments could happen without those guys up there on the line. Do they whine about it? Do they resent their quarterback, running backs, tight ends, and wide receivers because they don't get to carry the ball, score the touchdowns? No they don't. Do their parents have derogatory names for the players that are in the spotlight because they are jealous, think their child should have a shot at it, and don't see the value of all the positions on a team? No.

In cheer the smaller girls are flyers. That is just the way it is. Is it that way at all the gyms? I don't know, probably not.

In cheer the larger girls are bases and back spots. That is just the way it is. Is it that way at all the gyms? I don't know, probably not.

A true athlete is going to work hard to be the best they can be. A true athlete isn't really that caught up in what position they are playing. A true athlete wants to be in a position that best suits them for the team.

At the end of the day a true athlete is just happy to be a part of the team because that means they get to play.

Shouldn't that be the norm? Shouldn't all the positions be regarded as valuable?

This year on our R5 team it just so happens that we have four younger girls who are Ready for this level, all but 1 have fulls. We are a smaller gym who does not have a jr level 5 team, just an IO5. We are excited because they are talented and strong, and the team is looking great already. I have never liked that term for smaller flyers. Hopefully people will realize that there are many talented 10 year olds who deserve to b to be on a sr. Team due to their talent and/or gym situation.


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[soccercheergirl]

I'm really not sure why "fetus" is so offensive.....
There are a bunch of people coming in and saying that it's so wrong, but quite a few sound like parents.
Personally, as a flyer, I don't care. It's not used as an insult. It basically just shows how talented a flyer is at such a young age.


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[Fierceee99]

What are some of your cheer pet peeves?
Here are mine...

-When flyers aren't felxible enough to hold the bottom of their foot on a heelstretch, but instead hold their ankle.
-Jumps that have flexed feet and land their legs a mile wide apart.
-Slow tumblers.
-Walking into a competition arena and teams are walking around in their spankys and sports bra.
-Slow award ceremonies.
-Sloppy hair and makeup looks like its been thrown on at the last second.
-When flyers stick their elbows out on full downs/double downs.
-Bad and slow music.
-Not being ready (hair down, makeup not on, uniform off) when you get to the arena.
-Cowboyed out back tucks.
-Girls walking around with their uniform unzipped and skirts unbuttoned after the routine.
-Inconsiderate teams that walk infront of you in the middle of watching someones routine.
-Teams that take forever to get off the warm up mat.


Anyone else have pet peeves that are cheer related?

When coaches pick flyers just because they are small instead of their talent

 

[Fierceee99]

What are some of your cheer pet peeves?
Here are mine...

-When flyers aren't felxible enough to hold the bottom of their foot on a heelstretch, but instead hold their ankle.
-Jumps that have flexed feet and land their legs a mile wide apart.
-Slow tumblers.
-Walking into a competition arena and teams are walking around in their spankys and sports bra.
-Slow award ceremonies.
-Sloppy hair and makeup looks like its been thrown on at the last second.
-When flyers stick their elbows out on full downs/double downs.
-Bad and slow music.
-Not being ready (hair down, makeup not on, uniform off) when you get to the arena.
-Cowboyed out back tucks.
-Girls walking around with their uniform unzipped and skirts unbuttoned after the routine.
-Inconsiderate teams that walk infront of you in the middle of watching someones routine.
-Teams that take forever to get off the warm up mat.


Anyone else have pet peeves that are cheer related?

when coaches pick flyers based on their height instead of their talent

 

[CheerBank]

Seriously?

Why do they need to be called anything other than "flyer"?

To take that a step farther, why would you refer to my daughter, my child, using a phrase that you know is often associated with bitterness and hatefulness? Why do you find it "pretty darn amusing"? Why would you not expect people to be "bent out of shape... over hearing that term used"?

My daughter is now 11 and yes, she is a flyer. This will be her fourth year of cheer and she has always been a flyer on a Senior team. The first year the USASF newer age requirements weren't in place and the second year the small gym where she cheered didn't attend USASF events. Last year she was a flyer for a Senior team and she was the youngest on the team. She will again be a flyer on a Senior team this season. She is also basing on a Youth team and couldn't be happier about that.

Is she significantly smaller in stature than the majority of the girls on her Senior team? Yes. Yes she is.

So what?

Because she is smaller does that mean she doesn't need to be a flyer on a Senior team? Are you assuming that because she is smaller the only reason she is able to stay in the air is because of her bases? That she has no strength or not enough skill to do her job as a flyer?

Perhaps you believe that the only reason she is on a Senior team is because she is smaller and can be "tossed around like a rag doll"? That she couldn't possibly be a good dancer, an amazing jumper, and be one of the strongest tumblers on the team?

Here is how it is: The cheer industry tends to use smaller girls as flyers. That is just the way it is. I don't know if it is right or wrong, but it is what it is. It is also apparent that the same smaller girls will most likely grow and then become bases. Not all of them, but most.

I'm fairly confident that my own daughter will move to a full time base position eventually and I am just fine with that. In fact, she is a total beast as a base on her Youth 4 team. She is extremely proud that she has been able to learn level 4 basing when the only other time she based was at level 1.

Cheer is a team sport. That means there is a place for all body types. In fact, it takes all body types to make a team.

Take a look at my avatar. Those two boys are football players. The one on the left is a linebacker. The one on the right is an offensive lineman. The one on the left runs a 4.5 40 yard dash. The one on the right runs a 5.0 40 yard dash. The one on the right is about 3" taller and 50 lbs. heavier than the one on the left. The one on the left is a holy terror to anyone carrying the ball and the one on the right is your worst nightmare if you are trying to get to the quarterback. The one on the left is recognized again and again for sacks, tackles, and interceptions. The one on the right is never recognized at all. In fact the one on the right plays what is called a "non-skilled" position.

The lineman doesn't get "props". What he does get are team stats in the way of offensive yards, passing yards, and rushing yards. Those stats are his, and the entire offensive line's, closest thing to recognition. Funny thing though, none of the teams accomplishments could happen without those guys up there on the line. Do they whine about it? Do they resent their quarterback, running backs, tight ends, and wide receivers because they don't get to carry the ball, score the touchdowns? No they don't. Do their parents have derogatory names for the players that are in the spotlight because they are jealous, think their child should have a shot at it, and don't see the value of all the positions on a team? No.

In cheer the smaller girls are flyers. That is just the way it is. Is it that way at all the gyms? I don't know, probably not.

In cheer the larger girls are bases and back spots. That is just the way it is. Is it that way at all the gyms? I don't know, probably not.

A true athlete is going to work hard to be the best they can be. A true athlete isn't really that caught up in what position they are playing. A true athlete wants to be in a position that best suits them for the team.

At the end of the day a true athlete is just happy to be a part of the team because that means they get to play.

Shouldn't that be the norm? Shouldn't all the positions be regarded as valuable?

I see this really struck a nerve with you and I am sorry if it caused your blood pressure to rise.
This was not a comment of any kind on one position in cheer being more valuable than others, although I have yet to see a flyer levitate themselves in the air.
I don't see the term "fetus flyer" as offensive to the individual flyer but more as a criticism of the team/gym overall. Because to me it looks less impressive when a 10 year old who looks 8 is flying with high school seniors as bases and is being tossed around as opposed to a more mature looking flyer.


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[CheerBid]

Jumping on odd numbers

 

[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

I see this really struck a nerve with you and I am sorry if it caused your blood pressure to rise.
This was not a comment of any kind on one position in cheer being more valuable than others, although I have yet to see a flyer levitate themselves in the air.
I don't see the term "fetus flyer" as offensive to the individual flyer but more as a criticism of the team/gym overall. Because to me it looks less impressive when a 10 year old who looks 8 is flying with high school seniors as bases and is being tossed around as opposed to a more mature looking flyer.


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One of my intentions was to explain that I believe that all the positions on a team are equally important. Perhaps I didn't accomplish that. It seems there is so much hatefulness slung at flyers in general. Especially the younger ones on Senior teams, even though they meet the age requirement and have every necessary skill. Why is that? Really, why is that?

The term "fetus flyer" cannot refer to anything other than the flyer herself. "Flyer" is a noun. So when these athletes are referred to in that way either as a "fetus flyer" or in a group as "fetus flyers" the derogatory phrase is in fact directed at those athletes. How is that even remotely the same as the referring to the practice of gyms using smaller, younger girls as their flyers? For that a verb is needed since the practice is an action.

Regardless of the practice it is pretty much the standard in cheer. Why? I don't really know and I'm certainly not an authority because I am neither a gym owner nor a coach. I suspect it has much to do with the ability of the bases to keep a flyer in the air. If the bases were strong enough to hold a larger, older flyer in the air that had more experience don't you think those athletes would be the flyers? It is very impressive when older bases are able to fly girls their own age. It demonstrates a high level of skill and strength from every member of the stunt group. Every member.

You did strike a nerve with your comment. A fetus is a baby in utero. Not yet born. Not fully developed and not able to do what needs to be done to survive outside the uterus. So the term "fetus flyer" to me means a smaller athlete that really doesn't have the necessary skill to be on that team. I can assure you that my daughter and many of the other younger, smaller flyers out there have every skill needed in all areas to be a valuable member of their team. My daughter is in no way a "fetus flyer".

We can agree to disagree. I have no problem with that.

I know we have all had to deal with the Suzie's moms that think their precious is perfect in every way and they have to be a flyer and it is enough to make us gag. Those women are living through their daughters. Yes, even though my daughter is a flyer that type of behavior makes me just as crazy as it does everyone else. That is where the hatefulness comes in. People somehow think the flyer is the coveted position because they are the ones in the air, in the spotlight so to speak. Mom's want their child to have the coveted position if they see it that way. The athlete learns from the example set by the parent. So that, in my opinion, is the crux of the whole thing. Everybody can't be a flyer. Every flyer isn't going to always be a flyer. That's all there is to it. Flyers are no more important than any other member of the team.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Seriously?

Why do they need to be called anything other than "flyer"?

To take that a step farther, why would you refer to my daughter, my child, using a phrase that you know is often associated with bitterness and hatefulness?

.... (shortened for space)

derogatory names for the players that are in the spotlight because they are jealous, think their child should have a shot at it, and don't see the value of all the positions on a team?

1. "Fetus" is associated with bitterness and hatefulness? I think it's just referring to size. We joke at the dance studio all the time, and use the word fetus when we order costumes for the littlest kids. We always say we need "fetus size" because even xtra small is too big. We're not saying anything about their ability to "survive on their own" - just that they're really small!

2. The 2nd statement of your post that I left is waaaaay more assumptive and offensive to me than fetus flyer. Why would you assume people are jealous? It doesn't sound anything like you think all positions in cheer are important. It sounds like you are assuming all parents who don't like smaller flyers being used MUST be jealous. Maybe they just don't think 10 year olds (or 8 year olds) belong on senior teams. I sure don't. And no, I don't think most 8-10 year old children on senior teams have the skills necessary to be there (maybe they can technically perform the skills, but rarely with the same level of execution as someone older). The majority of the time they are noticeably there just to fly. And no, I'm not jealous.

As for your football example. One, YES, I hear football parents complaining all the time about the "star" positions. And two, if it was within football's rules to use kids that were significantly different in age to fill positions, YES, I definitely think people would complain then too. It's not jealousy - it's just side eyeing something you think is unnecessary.

My pet peeve? When people assume people are jealous simply because they don't like something. (Same for the word "haters" - people need to get over themselves.)


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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Maybe they just don't think 10 year olds (or 8 year olds) belong on senior teams. I sure don't. And no, I don't think most 8-10 year old children on senior teams have the skills necessary to be there (maybe they can technically perform the skills, but rarely with the same level of execution as someone older). The majority of the time they are noticeably there just to fly.

"Fetus" issue aside: I do tend to agree with you on some level with the above point. I think that the age grid is designed so that the EXCEPTIONAL 10-year-old has the opportunity to compete on a senior team, but has been interpreted to mean that ten = automatic senior team. Many folks think "I'm ten years old! BOOM! Time for Seniors!" No. Every kid that is age eligible for Seniors isn't mentally or physically ready for it! In my eyes, if you're 10, but only "Senior 5 ready" in ONE area of cheer (ex: just flying or just tumbling) I don't think you're ready. That's an entire thread in itself, though.

​

 

[Just-a-Mom]

"Fetus" issue aside: I do tend to agree with you on some level with the above point. I think that the age grid is designed so that the EXCEPTIONAL 10-year-old has the opportunity to compete on a senior team, but has been interpreted to mean that ten = automatic senior team. Many folks think "I'm ten years old! BOOM! Time for Seniors!" No. Every kid that is age eligible for Seniors isn't mentally or physically ready for it! In my eyes, if you're 10, but only "Senior 5 ready" in ONE area of cheer (ex: just flying or just tumbling) I don't think you're ready. That's an entire thread in itself, though.

​

Even if you have the skills in all areas, I generally don't find them to be as refined (can't think of a good word) as an older athlete. A 10 year old performing stunts never really has the same grace and execution as a 15 year old performing the same skills - size aside. So even if the child has a layout, standing tumbling, all the flying skills, etc, they still won't look as clean to me as an older athlete performing all those same skills. They could be exactly the same size and you can still tell them apart by performance (yes, I'm aware that there are those occasional kids that are exceptions to this, but more often than not this is true. And no, I don't think the child's parents are EVER a good judge of this)

I know small gyms don't always have an older athlete to choose. I'm just tired of hearing that all these 10 year olds "have the skills" when usually they are being chosen because they have adequate (at best) skills and are small.

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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

^^^^^This is why I'm an advocate for those kids spending a year or 2 on say, Junior 4 or 5 (if possible) before moving on to Sr 5. Gives you a chance to refine your skills. Too often, it's "Chuck a double or 2 in privates, then Senior 5 next week."

Not everyone is ready for that.

I will say that there are some well-known Large All Girl teams with pretty impressive young athletes (like, 13-14) who seem to be solid in all areas. Definitely possible, but those kids are not the majority.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Does this mean "life size flyers" is also un-PC and offensive?


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[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

@Just-a-Mom you make some valid points. I did not mean to imply that the flyer position was the most important position. I don't feel that way at all. That was not my intent.

To anyone in general:

Some may think of the word "fetus" as only referring to size. I see it differently. I am not the only one on here that feels that way. What I cannot wrap my head around is grown adults willingly using a phrase that they know some find offensive.

I really didn't mean to say that people were jealous of the flyer positions. I am not assuming that everyone wants their child to be the flyer, or the quarterback, or the pitcher. I am saying that when I hear people who in any way describe the girls in the flyer position as less than adequate then I have to wonder why? Maybe they really are inadequate. Maybe they aren't. So if the athlete is completely adequate to be in that position on a Senior team then why shouldn't they be able to? How are people determining that the younger athlete has no business being on the Senior team? What is the basis for their conclusion? What are the facts that say the younger athlete should not be on that team? Are they at every practice? Do they see how much work the athlete puts in at home on their own time to earn a position?

@oncecoolcoachnowmom makes the point that the age ranges provide an opportunity for the younger girls to be on a Senior team. She also says that should only be the case if the athlete is fully able to meet all of the requirements of the level and I couldn't agree with her more.

Why are we even arguing this whole thing? Why is there not some term for bases or back spots that may not be up to snuff but still get opportunities? If someone's interpretation of "fetus" simply means smaller and doesn't question ability then what word would be used to describe the size of the other members of the team that anyone on this board would find acceptable? Anyone?

Strong, skilled, experienced, reliable, knowledgeable, "beast"? All of those would probably be acceptable and I have heard them used on this board often. Notice how all of those are referring to the athlete's ability and not their size? I am positive that if there was a phrase used to describe nothing other than the size of these girls then the majority of those athletes parents would find that offensive, and so would I!!!!

I am totally over myself which is why I have no problems asking these questions of any of us. I don't have to agree on every point to like and respect someone. I certainly don't feel the need to assume that someone is a hater when they can make valid points supported by facts. I do however have to wonder what the real intention is when phrases that are found to be hurtful are used with no regard or respect for the individual they are being used to describe.

Find a term to describe these younger flyers based on their skill (or lack of) which can be supported factually (on an individual basis) that has no connection with their size. Or go ahead and call them "fetus flyers", but don't act offended when I call you on it. Because as long as my daughter is a younger flyer when you say "fetus flyer" you are talking about her.

 

[luv2cheer92]

One of my intentions was to explain that I believe that all the positions on a team are equally important. Perhaps I didn't accomplish that. It seems there is so much hatefulness slung at flyers in general. Especially the younger ones on Senior teams, even though they meet the age requirement and have every necessary skill. Why is that? Really, why is that?

The term "fetus flyer" cannot refer to anything other than the flyer herself. "Flyer" is a noun. So when these athletes are referred to in that way either as a "fetus flyer" or in a group as "fetus flyers" the derogatory phrase is in fact directed at those athletes. How is that even remotely the same as the referring to the practice of gyms using smaller, younger girls as their flyers? For that a verb is needed since the practice is an action.

Regardless of the practice it is pretty much the standard in cheer. Why? I don't really know and I'm certainly not an authority because I am neither a gym owner nor a coach. I suspect it has much to do with the ability of the bases to keep a flyer in the air. If the bases were strong enough to hold a larger, older flyer in the air that had more experience don't you think those athletes would be the flyers? It is very impressive when older bases are able to fly girls their own age. It demonstrates a high level of skill and strength from every member of the stunt group. Every member.

You did strike a nerve with your comment. A fetus is a baby in utero. Not yet born. Not fully developed and not able to do what needs to be done to survive outside the uterus. So the term "fetus flyer" to me means a smaller athlete that really doesn't have the necessary skill to be on that team. I can assure you that my daughter and many of the other younger, smaller flyers out there have every skill needed in all areas to be a valuable member of their team. My daughter is in no way a "fetus flyer".

We can agree to disagree. I have no problem with that.

I know we have all had to deal with the Suzie's moms that think their precious is perfect in every way and they have to be a flyer and it is enough to make us gag. Those women are living through their daughters. Yes, even though my daughter is a flyer that type of behavior makes me just as crazy as it does everyone else. That is where the hatefulness comes in. People somehow think the flyer is the coveted position because they are the ones in the air, in the spotlight so to speak. Mom's want their child to have the coveted position if they see it that way. The athlete learns from the example set by the parent. So that, in my opinion, is the crux of the whole thing. Everybody can't be a flyer. Every flyer isn't going to always be a flyer. That's all there is to it. Flyers are no more important than any other member of the team.

Maybe I missed it, but I never saw him call out your daughter as a fetus flyer as you seem to be thinking. Whenever I hear the term fetus flyer it is typically about those tiny ten year olds that are only the team to fly and do not have any other skills at that level. While I do not agree with having 10 year olds on a senior team and find it ridiculous, it isn't against the rules so I know teams will do it and have no problem with that, but some people don't like seeing tiny girls that do not have appropriate level skills placed on higher level teams just to fly. That tends to be where the term comes in from what I've seen, if you've (or your daughter) got the skills then you should have nothing to worry about.

 

[notimeforthat]

^^^^^This is why I'm an advocate for those kids spending a year or 2 on say, Junior 4 or 5 (if possible) before moving on to Sr 5. Gives you a chance to refine your skills. Too often, it's "Chuck a double or 2 in privates, then Senior 5 next week."

Not everyone is ready for that.

I will say that there are some well-known Large All Girl teams with pretty impressive young athletes (like, 13-14) who seem to be solid in all areas. Definitely possible, but those kids are not the majority.

My daughter spent 3 years on a J5 before advancing to Sr 5 at 12.
Most 12 year olds in our gym are on a J5 till they age out... mine was an exception and if she hadn't spent 3 years "training" for a worlds team I doubt she would had ever been condidered.