High School Creative Ways To Let Girls Know They Have Made The Team.

[GForce]

I like the teacher recommendations, especially for freshman and people who have never been on the team before. For returning girls, the coach already have an idea of their attitudes and work ethics, but for new girls they need something to start with, so I see how teacher recommendations are useful. However, some students tend to act different in a school setting vs a social and athletic setting. Also, students tend to get their recommendations to the class with the best grade and the teacher who likes them most, so sometimes you might not be getting the full story through a teacher recommendation.


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[Cheerfun]

^^ I guess I just think if they are going to use teacher recs for cheer...they should use them for ALL sports teams. I can assure you there are plenty of kids on our other MS sports teams who don't give a poo about their classes, but DO give a poo about their sport. If teachers had to give recs for some of these kids...they might not be good recs. Or how about a teacher who just really doesn't like a certain kid? It just seems to add another layer of subjectivity into an already too subjective process. I think it should boil down to "who has the skills and who doesn't?" Frankly, if I were a coach, I would publish a rubric with how many points certain skills are worth. I would want to be very upfront and open about the selection process.

There was a situation at our MS a couple of years ago where a child made the cheer team who could not land a BHS without a spot. Which is fine, except I know of at least 4 other girls who tried out who threw layouts and standing tucks during their tryouts and did not make the team. Now, perhaps that child had an amazingly loud voice or infectious smile or stellar teacher recs, whatever...but there was no point value rubric so who knows how those "intangibles" are scored? All I know is the child had a mother who was a teacher, and pretty everyone in the school knew those other 4 were better at the skills...so it made everything APPEAR fishy. It would NEVER have gone down like that in football. And it makes me sad for the sport of cheer.

 

[omgitssydthekid]

@Cheerfun We were given a blank copy of the scoresheet at the meeting before tryouts in junior high. I believe we also received one in high school as well.


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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I require them of all core subjects. So you can't do an "I'm a brat in English so I won't give her a form" thing. I want all 5 of your core teachers. If you cheered JV last year, I also have to have one from the JV coach.

I also give out score sheets at the pre-tryout meeting. Recommendations are only 15 points.

Tumbling is 20. Standing and running are a max of 10 points each. Running tumbling is minimum round off 2 BHS to a tuck. Standing is minimum standing tuck.

10 points max in each category of tumbling, but you are only going to get a 10 if you're super clean. Ex: Some girls think "oh I threw my full, automatic 10! Nope. It was janky so it's not well-executed and actually worth 5. Meanwhile, the girl with the basic 2 to a tuck that is CLEAN gets a 9.

Stunting is 15. Cheer is 15. Appearance/Attitude = 15. Dance is 15. Jumps are 15 (3 jumps scored zero to 3 points.)

 

[CEAisstronger]

For returning girls, the coach already have an idea of their attitudes and work ethics.


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I will say some attitudes change. One girl made captain this year and I saw a whole different side of her including a terrible attitude.



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[GForce]

I will say some attitudes change. One girl made captain this year and I saw a whole different side of her including a terrible attitude.



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That is totally true. I have definitely seen attitude chances in teammates over the years.


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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

^^^^I've always waited until after summer to name captain because it's REALLY easy to be happy, perfect leader, captain material during summer. It's harder to do it once we're knee deep in comp practices in September.

I also make note of those girls who totally "bait & switch" with their attitudes. Those are the girls I pull aside and tell them they'd better get their lives together or I will release them because I seriously can't deal.

I've only ever released one girl due to attitude, but her attitude was coupled with missing 3 practices in a row because she didn't feel like it, so that was really easy for me. (miss 3 practices unexcused and you're out.)

That's why I have always had alternates. I don't need you and if you aren't willing to do what you're supposed to do, someone else will!

 

[Cheerfun]

But doesn't it bug you guys at all that the other sports don't do teacher recs? Does your volleyball team need teacher recs? I just think it marginalizes cheer as a sport...makes the team sort of glorified goodwill ambassadors for the school, rather than athletes.

Onecoolcoachnowmom, that is a good rubric.

 

[AScheer]

My tryouts are similar to other sports at our school. I choose my own team and have complete control over how I do it. Over the years I've created a tryout that works best for me and my school, doesn't mean it works best for everyone!

My scoresheet is public and I make sure girls know that tumbling isn't everything! You may have a full but if every time I look over you're goofing off or sitting there not working, we have a problem. If you have the best kick double basket, but I read your name all over the bathroom wall, we have a problem. If you can throw a standing tuck but can't hear the beat of the music, we have a problem!

I do have teacher recommendations. Actually have them set up similar to how my sorority did recruitment. 0-3 pt rating and comments. Comments are the most important to me! There have been years I didn't do these and I came to regret it so I started them back up last year. The recommendations don't necessarily count on the scoresheet, they are more so I know about the kid. If a kid is a trouble maker or mean girl I want to know. If she has terrible grades I want to know (I don't want to waste a spot on someone who will be benched all year). If she has awesome parents or crazy parents or a home life that won't be conducive to our program I need to know. I can almost always decipher if a teacher is being mean and doesn't like the kid. I also know which teachers input I value more than others.

Last year was the first time I had a girl get an "absolutely do not recommend this girl" from EVERY single teacher. She had skills and scores to make JV but we didn't place her on the team for that exact reason. Things happened in the year, she thoroughly impressed me with behavior, we had an injury needing to be filled, her new teachers this year recommended her so I gave her a chance and put her in the spot. Regretted it the very next week. Behavior issues, attitude issues, and mother issues all in the 3 short months she cheered for me. One incident we almost removed her and had there not been less than a month left, I would have. Lesson learned.

In my experience, the kids with the less than stellar recommendations are the ones that become problem children. They prevent the team from bonding, not exactly something needed in football or baseball. My very first year I kicked my most talented cheerleader off the team and it was the best decision I made all year. Cheer is different. I get paid VERY little and deal with these kids and parents 4-6 days a week for an entire year. I also travel on 4 trips with these people. If there going to make my life harder, it's not worth it regardless of if they have have fulls or layouts,etc. The other sports in our school last a few months. If a kids a problem you don't play them and someone else goes in, no big deal. Coaches also get paid more and deal with a lot less parent interaction. I can see why they don't care about grades or classroom performance, especially if their season is so short report cards won't even come out while they have the kid.

Long story short, until you're a school cheer coach and deal with the crap that we have to deal with, you won't/can't understand. I can promise if you're in our shoes though you'd probablyuse recommendations as well.


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[AScheer]

^^^^I've always waited until after summer to name captain because it's REALLY easy to be happy, perfect leader, captain material during summer. It's harder to do it once we're knee deep in comp practices in September.

I also make note of those girls who totally "bait & switch" with their attitudes. Those are the girls I pull aside and tell them they'd better get their lives together or I will release them because I seriously can't deal.

I've only ever released one girl due to attitude, but her attitude was coupled with missing 3 practices in a row because she didn't feel like it, so that was really easy for me. (miss 3 practices unexcused and you're out.)

That's why I have always had alternates. I don't need you and if you aren't willing to do what you're supposed to do, someone else will!

Best decision I ever made was to get rid of captains. Seriously solved so much and I've never looked back! If there's something that needs to be done I delegate to older returners. If you're impressing me you get opportunities. I had a few years of Jekyll and Hyde captains before I was over it!


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[cheernerd5678]

But doesn't it bug you guys at all that the other sports don't do teacher recs? Does your volleyball team need teacher recs? I just think it marginalizes cheer as a sport...makes the team sort of glorified goodwill ambassadors for the school, rather than athletes.

Onecoolcoachnowmom, that is a good rubric.

I think all the other sports should do teacher recs too, but they don't. I don't like the people representing our school in any sport to be jerks. If the star football player has D's in all his classes (which still meets the grade requirement) because he's a jerk who is rude to teachers and other students and has his headphones in all of class... He shouldn't be allowed to play. But unfortunately the sports are so important that the people in charge don't really care about it. That's their problem... good luck to those kids in life though who never had to learn there are consequences to your actions, even if things seem unrelated, consequences can carry over.
Recommendations shouldn't be everything, but say they're 15% - honestly it's not going to make that huge of a difference if your scores in all other areas are good, unless your recs are extremely bad. I've never seen it as a big deal, just a formality. We didn't do them this year but I don't think the team would have ended up differently if we did.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

As to your above post re: kicking off talented girls.

I've never had to completely release a talented girl, but NOTHING sends a message like pulling your point flyer from the air for talking.

I had a "fresh from JV" awesome flyer who was pretty much out-fiercing everyone in the air. Only problem is that she would not stop talking. The JV coach is less strict on talking and I'd warned her 3 times not to talk or laugh while stunting. Biggest pet peeve.

One day, she laughed when she bailed out of her stunt. That was it. I pulled her for 3 games. Like, pulled, on the sideline cheering but not stunting. I replaced her with an alternate (alternates typically cheer games, but I took our most versatile alternate and made her a flyer instead of a base.)

You need to know that you're not Gabi Butler and I can (and will) do without you. There was lots of "Ohmygawd I'm soooo quitting" and lots of emails from mom but it was worth it.

She never goofed off again and is now pretty well-behaved.

I have a very limited tolerance for behavior issues. This is not pop warner and you need to get your life together quick.

 

[MHSCheercoach]

I get your point and agree that cheerleading tryouts should be more like other sports. I think it's silly that some HS coaches have to bring in outside judges and can't pick their own team. Teacher recommendations are a good thing in my mind though. As a coach (AS not HS), I would much prefer to know what kind of kid I'm getting. If your CP doesn't give a poo in her classes, it's a good assumption that she won't give a poo at practice. I don't care if she's talented, if she's a pain the butt to deal with then I don't want to coach her. Attitude is everything.

I think teacher recommendations are a good lead up to the real world too. Future employers require references, check social media accounts, and run background checks. Let's teach kids early that what you do in your outside life still impacts your sport/job.

Exactly, that's why we have teacher recommendations. Let's face it, girls are much more emotional and catty than boys are, so there is a double standard, plus our season is much longer and involves more teamwork, in my opinion, than other sports.
Grades and attitudes were a huge issue this year which negatively affected the whole team. I used to require 3 (most only have 5 different teachers in the current semester) and average the scores, this time all three count since there were so many issues last year. It's absolutely important that I have good girls who are hard workers. I don't care if they are the most talented, I want the girls who are there to cheer on their team, promote school spirit, and are willing to work hard. All too often girls may have the talent, but too much attitude or you get girls who are in it for the uniform.
I say weed out those and get a good group of girls who are willing to work hard.

 

[MHSCheercoach]

^^ I guess I just think if they are going to use teacher recs for cheer...they should use them for ALL sports teams. I can assure you there are plenty of kids on our other MS sports teams who don't give a poo about their classes, but DO give a poo about their sport. If teachers had to give recs for some of these kids...they might not be good recs. Or how about a teacher who just really doesn't like a certain kid? It just seems to add another layer of subjectivity into an already too subjective process. I think it should boil down to "who has the skills and who doesn't?" Frankly, if I were a coach, I would publish a rubric with how many points certain skills are worth. I would want to be very upfront and open about the selection process.

There was a situation at our MS a couple of years ago where a child made the cheer team who could not land a BHS without a spot. Which is fine, except I know of at least 4 other girls who tried out who threw layouts and standing tucks during their tryouts and did not make the team. Now, perhaps that child had an amazingly loud voice or infectious smile or stellar teacher recs, whatever...but there was no point value rubric so who knows how those "intangibles" are scored? All I know is the child had a mother who was a teacher, and pretty everyone in the school knew those other 4 were better at the skills...so it made everything APPEAR fishy. It would NEVER have gone down like that in football. And it makes me sad for the sport of cheer.

Sports, no matter what sport, is Extracurricular. You send your kids to school to get good grades and learn, if they are unable to do well and have respect for their teachers and other students they shouldn't get to participate in sports. Sports are for teaching teamwork and hard work, not who can be the best, if that's all that's focused on then the coach is not focused on the right things. It's great to win, but you learn more from that loss than from the win.

As for the rubric, I have a rubric and every girl who tries out receives a copy of the tryout score sheet, I even hold mock tryouts and let them know where I would score them (I'm not allowed to judge the day of tryouts). Again, if someone comes into tryouts and are over confident (cocky), it's a put off to my judges. In high school or middle school cheer, competitive or not, the purpose of the team is to cheer on the team and lead the crowd. Who wants to yell with a girl who lacks spirit or rolls her eyes when it's not her favorite cheer? Not saying this applies to your situation, but unless you know what the girls were judged on and the judges comments, you can't assume that things were fishy.

Oh, and the school I coach at, cheerleading is the only team you tryout for. If you were at a larger school, I don't see why teacher recommendations shouldn't be used when considering Varsity/JV, team or cut. I'll take a good attitude over talent every day!!

 

[MHSCheercoach]

My tryouts are similar to other sports at our school. I choose my own team and have complete control over how I do it. Over the years I've created a tryout that works best for me and my school, doesn't mean it works best for everyone!

My scoresheet is public and I make sure girls know that tumbling isn't everything! You may have a full but if every time I look over you're goofing off or sitting there not working, we have a problem. If you have the best kick double basket, but I read your name all over the bathroom wall, we have a problem. If you can throw a standing tuck but can't hear the beat of the music, we have a problem!

I do have teacher recommendations. Actually have them set up similar to how my sorority did recruitment. 0-3 pt rating and comments. Comments are the most important to me! There have been years I didn't do these and I came to regret it so I started them back up last year. The recommendations don't necessarily count on the scoresheet, they are more so I know about the kid. If a kid is a trouble maker or mean girl I want to know. If she has terrible grades I want to know (I don't want to waste a spot on someone who will be benched all year). If she has awesome parents or crazy parents or a home life that won't be conducive to our program I need to know. I can almost always decipher if a teacher is being mean and doesn't like the kid. I also know which teachers input I value more than others.

Last year was the first time I had a girl get an "absolutely do not recommend this girl" from EVERY single teacher. She had skills and scores to make JV but we didn't place her on the team for that exact reason. Things happened in the year, she thoroughly impressed me with behavior, we had an injury needing to be filled, her new teachers this year recommended her so I gave her a chance and put her in the spot. Regretted it the very next week. Behavior issues, attitude issues, and mother issues all in the 3 short months she cheered for me. One incident we almost removed her and had there not been less than a month left, I would have. Lesson learned.

In my experience, the kids with the less than stellar recommendations are the ones that become problem children. They prevent the team from bonding, not exactly something needed in football or baseball. My very first year I kicked my most talented cheerleader off the team and it was the best decision I made all year. Cheer is different. I get paid VERY little and deal with these kids and parents 4-6 days a week for an entire year. I also travel on 4 trips with these people. If there going to make my life harder, it's not worth it regardless of if they have have fulls or layouts,etc. The other sports in our school last a few months. If a kids a problem you don't play them and someone else goes in, no big deal. Coaches also get paid more and deal with a lot less parent interaction. I can see why they don't care about grades or classroom performance, especially if their season is so short report cards won't even come out while they have the kid.

Long story short, until you're a school cheer coach and deal with the crap that we have to deal with, you won't/can't understand. I can promise if you're in our shoes though you'd probablyuse recommendations as well.


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AMEN!!!! Couldn't have said it better myself!!