All-Star Crossovers And Sandbagging

[FlexyTumblerMom]

I find that to be shocking... I thought stacking just didn't happen in gymnastics because of the obsession with perfect technique?

My CP had to compete gymnastics in the same age division against a girl who could do all level 7 skills her entire level 5 season. I felt it was kind of unfair, especially on bars where it's really hard to have bad technique on lower level skills when you can physically do higher level ones (this isn't as true on beam and floor cause there are elements like leaps and such that go into the score too). Some gyms do this cause they'd rather their kids get 37's and 38's at every level then a few 33's and 34's, so they wait until a kid is going to be near perfect before they send them out there. Yeah, it can be argued it's a good thing, but it's still sandbagging . Like when kids who are working fulls and double downs compete level 2 w/ near perfect technique - some could argue that those kids are really only level 2 athletes if that's all they can do perfectly.

 

[MzLyn23]

No, I totally agree. I thing the age grid is so messed up. A mini shouldn't be on a junior team lol the girl is very talented she technically could be on a level 5 team as I think she by now has a running full but regardless it looks funny because she's also super tiny so when she's flying on J3 it just looks weird since all the rest of the kids are more junior sized.

I also don't agree with a 10 year old being able to be on a senior team with girls who can super senior and are 19...makes no sense.

I some what agree with this but then as a parent and former coach, here's my issue with 10 year olds on a senior team (regardless of level or skill)... what do u do with the 10 year old that looks 12.... My CP who just turned 11 in December is on a Senior team... all the flyers on the senior team are 12 and up with her being the exception (she is the true baby on the team)... and she's literally the same size as the 12 years old and even one of the 13 year olds... On the junior team in her gym the girls are not that big... the ones that are big, the 13-14 year olds who happen to crossover to senior (same level cause there aren't many) are already being used to stunt other flyers... So my cp would possibly be left grounded because she is on the thicker side and needs strong bases (I know because I coached her) and actually isn't too confident in being a base herself (unless its her American girl doll or someone half her size lol).... So yes I do think that 10 year olds on a senior team look weird when they're the small (Very small) but then if that age is changed what happens to the other 10 year olds/11 year olds that look older (or maybe have baby face but the body of a 12/13 year old lol - yes I struggle with this everyday as a mom - mental/emotional torcher thanks to my cp being blessed by well endowed Hispanic genes giving her a practically a teenagers body minus the boobs at the age of 9!!)

Yes a 10 year old that looks like she's 5 would stick out immensely on any senior team but again what about the bigger girls that are 10 and would probably look awkward on a junior or even youth team? Its just a weird thing the whole age-grid... how to make it fair how to make it appropriate competitively... do we not just ask for DOB but also height and weight and clothing size... Same with stacking crossovers to win... Should they register their level as well per athlete etc...

Oh what a way to just spice things up and confuse it even more...

 

[GreatWhite92]

Back when I first started there was a general rule of thumb that if you were in elementary school you were on youth, middle school - junior, high school - senior. Sure that only gives you 4 or 5 seasons on a worlds team but do you really need any more if you have great junior teams with appropriately aged girls? Boy how times have changed.


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[AliciaM]

Lol I think while it may look awkward if a girl is bigger ( I had girls I coached mini who looked like youth/juniors) but mentally they should be with girls more their age. I get being bigger and not being used as much because you're too big to top but not strong enough to base or what have you but I still think it's wrong that girls are together on a team that have sex when another girl may not even have her period yet. But thats my opinion

 

[amy1k]

I some what agree with this but then as a parent and former coach, here's my issue with 10 year olds on a senior team (regardless of level or skill)... what do u do with the 10 year old that looks 12.... My CP who just turned 11 in December is on a Senior team... all the flyers on the senior team are 12 and up with her being the exception (she is the true baby on the team)... and she's literally the same size as the 12 years old and even one of the 13 year olds... On the junior team in her gym the girls are not that big... the ones that are big, the 13-14 year olds who happen to crossover to senior (same level cause there aren't many) are already being used to stunt other flyers... So my cp would possibly be left grounded because she is on the thicker side and needs strong bases (I know because I coached her) and actually isn't too confident in being a base herself (unless its her American girl doll or someone half her size lol).... So yes I do think that 10 year olds on a senior team look weird when they're the small (Very small) but then if that age is changed what happens to the other 10 year olds/11 year olds that look older (or maybe have baby face but the body of a 12/13 year old lol - yes I struggle with this everyday as a mom - mental/emotional torcher thanks to my cp being blessed by well endowed Hispanic genes giving her a practically a teenagers body minus the boobs at the age of 9!!)

Yes a 10 year old that looks like she's 5 would stick out immensely on any senior team but again what about the bigger girls that are 10 and would probably look awkward on a junior or even youth team? Its just a weird thing the whole age-grid... how to make it fair how to make it appropriate competitively... do we not just ask for DOB but also height and weight and clothing size... Same with stacking crossovers to win... Should they register their level as well per athlete etc...

Oh what a way to just spice things up and confuse it even more...

The thing is, kids are all different sizes and the smallest kids keep getting bumped up to higher age groups in order to fly. My daughter flies on a j3 and is 14. She's one of the smaller girls on the team, but older than the other flyers by far...the others are 10 and 11. Another j3 (not picking on ya'll, I promise!!!) locally has girls smaller than mine basing much smaller/younger flyers. Like, I've seen youth age itty-bitty girls basing on their junior team. Anyway, I don't even remember my point, but 3/4 of kids on a team need to not be flying.

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

I think a general thing is that unless you are competing in the absolute highest level of competition - level 5 for cheer, elite for gymnastics, pro/division 1 college for football, there's always a risk of sandbagging.

 

[Cheerleading Is My Life]

I some what agree with this but then as a parent and former coach, here's my issue with 10 year olds on a senior team (regardless of level or skill)... what do u do with the 10 year old that looks 12.... My CP who just turned 11 in December is on a Senior team... all the flyers on the senior team are 12 and up with her being the exception (she is the true baby on the team)... and she's literally the same size as the 12 years old and even one of the 13 year olds... On the junior team in her gym the girls are not that big... the ones that are big, the 13-14 year olds who happen to crossover to senior (same level cause there aren't many) are already being used to stunt other flyers... So my cp would possibly be left grounded because she is on the thicker side and needs strong bases (I know because I coached her) and actually isn't too confident in being a base herself (unless its her American girl doll or someone half her size lol).... So yes I do think that 10 year olds on a senior team look weird when they're the small (Very small) but then if that age is changed what happens to the other 10 year olds/11 year olds that look older (or maybe have baby face but the body of a 12/13 year old lol - yes I struggle with this everyday as a mom - mental/emotional torcher thanks to my cp being blessed by well endowed Hispanic genes giving her a practically a teenagers body minus the boobs at the age of 9!!)

Yes a 10 year old that looks like she's 5 would stick out immensely on any senior team but again what about the bigger girls that are 10 and would probably look awkward on a junior or even youth team? Its just a weird thing the whole age-grid... how to make it fair how to make it appropriate competitively... do we not just ask for DOB but also height and weight and clothing size... Same with stacking crossovers to win... Should they register their level as well per athlete etc...

Oh what a way to just spice things up and confuse it even more...

The one problem I would have with this if I was a parent is that my 11 year old would be listening in on the conversations of the 17 and 18 year olds on the team and I'm going to assume a lot of their conversations are going to be inappropriate for my 11 year old to be listening to.

 

[SheCheers]

The one problem I would have with this if I was a parent is that my 11 year old would be listening in on the conversations of the 17 and 18 year olds on the team and I'm going to assume a lot of their conversations are going to be inappropriate for my 11 year old to be listening to.

Hopefully parents are actually parenting and have had talks with their kids about what's appropriate and what isn't rather than just trying to shield them from anything in appropriate.

not directed at you in particular, but towards everyone who thinks they know exactly what age group should be with which age group and that somehow that's a job of the USASF and not a kid's own parents:

Appropriateness at age levels is so varying based on experience of individuals and maturity of individuals. it's not black and white. there is no formula that once a kid is in high school they can suddenly now be "exposed" to certain concepts. parents should be parenting...which is an ever-evolving INVOLVED practice. not a set of "no, you're too young to see X" rules that someone else has to make on a parent's behalf.

 

[Cheerleading Is My Life]

Hopefully parents are actually parenting and have had talks with their kids about what's appropriate and what isn't rather than just trying to shield them from anything in appropriate.

not directed at you in particular, but towards everyone who thinks they know exactly what age group should be with which age group and that somehow that's a job of the USASF and not a kid's own parents:

Appropriateness at age levels is so varying based on experience of individuals and maturity of individuals. it's not black and white. there is no formula that once a kid is in high school they can suddenly now be "exposed" to certain concepts. parents should be parenting...which is an ever-evolving INVOLVED practice. not a set of "no, you're too young to see X" rules that someone else has to make on a parent's behalf.

I'm not completely sure what your trying to say, but I don't think older kids should have to "be careful" with what they say while with the team because of the younger kids on the team. Not sure if that's what you were trying to say or not but just how I feel. Also, I do agree with the maturity thing. It's hard to put an age on when a child will be mature enough to be on a certain team but I do think coaches need to look more into the maturity of an athlete when placing them on a team.

 

[SheCheers]

I'm not completely sure what your trying to say, but I don't think older kids should have to "be careful" with what they say while with the team because of the younger kids on the team. Not sure if that's what you were trying to say or not but just how I feel. Also, I do agree with the maturity thing. It's hard to put an age on when a child will be mature enough to be on a certain team but I do think coaches need to look more into the maturity of an athlete when placing them on a team.

All I'm trying to say is if a coach wanted to place my hypothetical 10 year old on a senior team, that should be left for myself and the coach to decide in terms of skill level of the athlete and maturity of the athlete. Not for the USASF to worry about said 10 year old being hypothetically exposed to something. If they want to put an age floor, the reasoning shouldn't be because of a parenting issue. I agree that older kids shouldn't need to censor themselves.

 

[Cheerleading Is My Life]

All I'm trying to say is if I a coach wanted to place my hypothetical 10 year old on a senior team, that should be left for myself and the coach to decide in terms of skill level of the athlete and maturity of the athlete. Not for the USASF to worry about said 10 year old being hypothetically exposed to something. If they want to put an age floor, the reasoning shouldn't be because of a parenting issue. I agree that older kids shouldn't need to censor themselves.

Okay I totally understand what your saying and I agree with you.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Hopefully parents are actually parenting and have had talks with their kids about what's appropriate and what isn't rather than just trying to shield them from anything in appropriate.

not directed at you in particular, but towards everyone who thinks they know exactly what age group should be with which age group and that somehow that's a job of the USASF and not a kid's own parents:

Appropriateness at age levels is so varying based on experience of individuals and maturity of individuals. it's not black and white. there is no formula that once a kid is in high school they can suddenly now be "exposed" to certain concepts. parents should be parenting...which is an ever-evolving INVOLVED practice. not a set of "no, you're too young to see X" rules that someone else has to make on a parent's behalf.

The average senior I've interacted with is actually pretty good about minding his/her mouth or topic choice around their younger teammates, to be honest.

 

[dawgshow]

I almost have just as much of a problem with a girl being on a mini team and a junior team, not even considering the skill levels. That's a huge age difference, I'm a huge proponent for bottom age limits for all ages, though I'm sure I'm in the minority in that.

No you aren't. Unfortunately, this could kill the small gyms if it's not well thought out.

 

[SheCheers]

The average senior I've interacted with is actually pretty good about minding his/her mouth or topic choice around their younger teammates, to be honest.

I definitely agree.

 

[dawgshow]

The average senior I've interacted with is actually pretty good about minding his/her mouth or topic choice around their younger teammates, to be honest.

I've noticed that, too. The worst culprits in my experience are those 7th and 8th graders who don't think about the fact that there are 3rd and 4th graders around.