All-Star Crossovers And Sandbagging

[klynn64]

You just proved my point. Many people do leave because a gym is not competitive. Which is why some Owner/Coaches feel the need to stack, to win be competitive and retain customers.

And in Business you do build relationships that extend beyond business, because if you don't your customers will not be loyal. Its what I do for a living and if I did not build those relationships I would be broke.

We will agree to disagree,

How did I prove your point ? By believing the customer has the right to take their business elsewhere if they are dissatisfied ? You are assuming their dissatisfaction comes from a lack of wins? We remained at a gym for five years and never won once. When we left the gym it had nothing to do with wins or losses. Are there gym hoppers ? Absolutely. But they are in the minority and only hurt themselves. I would leave a gym rather than participate in stacking. I would NOT leave a gym due to not winning.

 

[MzLyn23]

So here is my solution to the problem:

Majority if not all gyms register their athletes on the USASF site correct? (I know I got the email from USASF that I had to scan my CP's birth certificate etc to verify age and what not)... Now when I saw her page which also has a section to add a picture, the gym she currently participates with was listed. Ok so why doesn't USASF make it mandatory for the gym to select what level/division that athlete is competing in... For example
Jane Doe
DOB: 00/00/1900
Gym: Wobble All Stars
Division/Level (Then it would be select those that apply)
Youth / Junior / Senior
1 2 3 4 4.2 5 5R
and it should be programmed in a way that if you are in a level 5 team then you can only cross down lets say one level to level 4 for example.... if you're in a level 2 then u can cross down or up one level....

This way when gyms participate in usasf events etc, and large competitions, a complete roster is already given, you will know which athletes are on more than one team/level/division etc....

that way you can not register your level 5 athletes to perform on a level 1 or 2 team.... I understand crossovers ( i coach i get that sometimes is necessary and many times girls love crossover because its more mat time for them lol) but i completely disagree with stacking or sandbagging in order to win

and to clarify with our experience this past weekend... this gym was not small at all and their level 5 athletes competed in their level 3 and 2 as well (at least the ones I watched)

 

[CheerDad18]

How did I prove your point ? By believing the customer has the right to take their business elsewhere if they are dissatisfied ? You are assuming their dissatisfaction comes from a lack of wins? We remained at a gym for five years and never won once. When we left the gym it had nothing to do with wins or losses. Are there gym hoppers ? Absolutely. But they are in the minority and only hurt themselves. I would leave a gym rather than participate in stacking. I would NOT leave a gym due to not winning.

My point was why owners feel the need to win,to keep customers and stack teams to do it.

Some people believe there is no relationship. It's just a service. Others feel differently. Not saying it's wrong to feel that way. My wife and I feel differently, we are older.

With our gym I feel it's a relationship they have earned my loyalty. My daughter has learned many great life lesson not just Cheer. There were years with no wins or very little wins too.

It also maybe the difference between a small Gym versus belonging to a mega Gym.

This sport is not bound by geographic boundaries, people move across the country. As a business its very cut throat.

 

[MissCongeniality]

My point was why owners feel the need to win,to keep customers and stack teams to do it.

Some people believe there is no relationship. It's just a service. Others feel differently. Not saying it's wrong to feel that way. My wife and I feel differently, we are older.

With our gym I feel it's a relationship they have earned my loyalty. My daughter has learned many great life lesson not just Cheer. There were years with no wins or very little wins too.

It also maybe the difference between a small Gym versus belonging to a mega Gym.

This sport is not bound by geographic boundaries, people move across the country. As a business its very cut throat.

I think you are speaking from the perspective of someone in a smaller sized gym. There is a different vibe in a smaller vs mega program. Neither is right or wrong. Just know that if gym can "replace you tomorrow"...you, as the athlete/parent/consumer should have the same choice. If I go to a mom and dad coffee shop and get bad coffee consistently ...I'm likely to say something. If I go to Starbucks and repeatedly get bad coffee...I'm going to go to a different Starbucks or to a competitor.

 

[CheerDad18]

I think you are speaking from the perspective of someone in a smaller sized gym. There is a different vibe in a smaller vs mega program. Neither is right or wrong. Just know that if gym can "replace you tomorrow"...you, as the athlete/parent/consumer should have the same choice. If I go to a mom and dad coffee shop and get bad coffee consistently ...I'm likely to say something. If I go to Starbucks and repeatedly get bad coffee...I'm going to go to a different Starbucks or to a competitor.

You are right there are a couple of very big gyms around that have no problem dropping you to a lower level team if you loose a skill or replacing you . I understand that type of relationship too. And yes I do come from a smaller gym. So it is a different perspective.

 

[klynn64]

So here is my solution to the problem:

Majority if not all gyms register their athletes on the USASF site correct? (I know I got the email from USASF that I had to scan my CP's birth certificate etc to verify age and what not)... Now when I saw her page which also has a section to add a picture, the gym she currently participates with was listed. Ok so why doesn't USASF make it mandatory for the gym to select what level/division that athlete is competing in... For example
Jane Doe
DOB: 00/00/1900
Gym: Wobble All Stars
Division/Level (Then it would be select those that apply)
Youth / Junior / Senior
1 2 3 4 4.2 5 5R
and it should be programmed in a way that if you are in a level 5 team then you can only cross down lets say one level to level 4 for example.... if you're in a level 2 then u can cross down or up one level....

This way when gyms participate in usasf events etc, and large competitions, a complete roster is already given, you will know which athletes are on more than one team/level/division etc....

that way you can not register your level 5 athletes to perform on a level 1 or 2 team.... I understand crossovers ( i coach i get that sometimes is necessary and many times girls love crossover because its more mat time for them lol) but i completely disagree with stacking or sandbagging in order to win

and to clarify with our experience this past weekend... this gym was not small at all and their level 5 athletes competed in their level 3 and 2 as well (at least the ones I watched)

Love that gym name.

 

[MzLyn23]

Love that gym name.

 

[omgitssydthekid]

Sorry since this is kind of irrelevant but I was wondering if anybody else has more kids get injured outside of practice than inside of practice? I've really noticed it this year and it usually seems to involve a trampoline [emoji19] we've had so many kids get hurt playing outside or at recess and had to find fill ins for a competition the week of because Sally wanted to play dodgeball at recess and broke her arm [emoji52] it's frustrating that most of our fill ins are due to situations like that as they didn't even occur in the gym.


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[TheVipersMom]

Yes[emoji16] we have had 1 injury .. Just as of recent right before our comp last week. Due to track ... So we got a fill in. And just found out today that the girl is no longer going to the summit so I guess her injury is too bad.


We had one back in December that got appendicitis and had to miss one comp literally the day we were heading up to Oklahoma.

So both fill ins/ replacements were due to non cheer related injuries and or sickness not attributed to cheer lol !!:


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[crazzyeyesassypants]

Sorry since this is kind of irrelevant but I was wondering if anybody else has more kids get injured outside of practice than inside of practice? I've really noticed it this year and it usually seems to involve a trampoline [emoji19] we've had so many kids get hurt playing outside or at recess and had to find fill ins for a competition the week of because dally wanted to play dodgeball at recess and broke her arm [emoji52] it's frustrating that most of our fill ins are due to situations like that as they didn't even occur in the gym.


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We had 3 girls get hurt this season and none were during practice.
1 Broke arm at school
2 broke her foot ice skating
3 dislocated shoulder tumbling on a trampoline at friends house





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[omgitssydthekid]

We had 3 girls get hurt this season and none were during practice.
1 Broke arm at school
2 broke her foot ice skating
3 dislocated shoulder tumbling on a trampoline at friends house





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My "favorite" at home injury was a handstand in a closet gone wrong (not that this could ever go right) that resulted in a sprained ankle. We've had several break arms/hands will playing on the trampoline at home, one girl got a bone contusion at recess, and one broke her fingers by sitting on them. It's been an...interesting...season.


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[klynn64]

Sorry since this is kind of irrelevant but I was wondering if anybody else has more kids get injured outside of practice than inside of practice? I've really noticed it this year and it usually seems to involve a trampoline [emoji19] we've had so many kids get hurt playing outside or at recess and had to find fill ins for a competition the week of because Sally wanted to play dodgeball at recess and broke her arm [emoji52] it's frustrating that most of our fill ins are due to situations like that as they didn't even occur in the gym.


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My CP was seemingly accident prone a few years back. We were at a Micro-gym (if we have Mega-gyms we must have Micro-gyms, right?). The gym had six athletes. If one athlete couldn't perform the teams could not compete (you have to have six to perform). They had one Hip Hop team and one cheer team. The same six athletes comprised both teams. My. CP was one of those six athletes. For a few competitions my daughter was on crutches. We would try to hide the crutches from the view of the judges. Then CP would do her best to walk out normally and perform. Same thing with Hip Hop. She got off her crutches and immediately sustained another injury. This was a never ending occurrence with CP. One day just prior to an important competition we arrived at the gym and were met at the door by the coach and gym owner, a chair and a giant roll of bubble wrap. Yep, they sat her in the chair and wrapped her up. There she sat for the entire practice. The owner even demanded she stay with her until competition. Of course, I didn't agree to do that. It was all done in good humor. But man that was a rough season.

 

[SheCheers]

Sorry since this is kind of irrelevant but I was wondering if anybody else has more kids get injured outside of practice than inside of practice? I've really noticed it this year and it usually seems to involve a trampoline [emoji19] we've had so many kids get hurt playing outside or at recess and had to find fill ins for a competition the week of because Sally wanted to play dodgeball at recess and broke her arm [emoji52] it's frustrating that most of our fill ins are due to situations like that as they didn't even occur in the gym.


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I think the majority of injuries probably happen outside of cheer only because you spend more time doing abnormal things outside of cheer. At cheer, things are choreographed, and there shouldn't be hazards laying around. Lol

Cp has had several varying degrees of injuries that have caused her to sit out for at least one practice and/or tumbling for several weeks/months. 1) finger slammed in closet door and fingernail ripped out. 2) heel pain over use tumbling related injury. 3) stitches on shin from slipping on water and sliding into the corner of the wall 4) dislocated pinky, playground/recess injury 5) stitches in the thigh from accidentally stabbing it with a teasing brush...that happened at home, but I consider it cheer related. Lol 6) stitches again in the shin from falling off her bike and into a stop sign. 7) growth plate fracture from tumbling at the gym during regular practice.

We have had trampolines for 13 years but (knocks on wood) cp, 12, hasn't gotten hurt on it. My youngest son did pop a bone out of his elbow on it and my oldest son got a broken nose on it, though.

 

[Fiercecheermom]

I don't perceive a change in gyms disloyal. Do I change gyms? No. But I don't view people who do as lacking loyalty. You are a customer, they are a business, and you are paying for a service they provide. The gym doesn't give you a guarantee on position, team or wins. And you don't guarantee you'll remain year after year. If you feel you no longer are getting value for your dollar then you stop doing business.

When it comes to loyalty you are talking about a relationship that extends beyond business. Loyalty is something you earn. You would like there to be a loyalty between the gym and the athlete (parent/guardian) but neither of you can just expect it to existI think there are some who leave "because they are not winning" but you have to look at

I don't perceive a change in gyms disloyal. Do I change gyms? No. But I don't view people who do as lacking loyalty. You are a customer, they are a business, and you are paying for a service they provide. The gym doesn't give you a guarantee on position, team or wins. And you don't guarantee you'll remain year after year. If you feel you no longer are getting value for your dollar then you stop doing business.

When it comes to loyalty you are talking about a relationship that extends beyond business. Loyalty is something you earn. You would like there to be a loyalty between the gym and the athlete (parent/guardian) but neither of you can just expect it to exist.

There are some people who leave gyms "because they are not winning", but you have to sometimes look at the reasons behind why they aren't winning. That in itself will sometimes give you more concrete reasons versus just simply saying "because we are not winning". Is it because the gym puts kids on the team who really should not be? Are they fielding a higher level team than they should to make sure they keep the money in their gym? Are they able to make the necessary adjustments within the program when emergencies arise (injuries, sickness, weather)? Do they listen to their customers concerns/questions? With the makeup of teams changing yearly, gyms have to adapt to those changes, thus gyms have changes yearly. These yearly changes could include the types of comps they attend, the level/number of teams, cost, etc. If gyms have the choice to make these changes/decisions, their customers have that right as well. Whether we want to believe it or not, GYMS ARE A BUSINESS, and since they are a business, we are the customers. Gyms choose what is best for their business therefore customers need to choose what is best for themselves.
I think the waters get a little "muddied" up because of how much time we spend with the gyms/athletes/parents. The investment of so much time adds the element of emotion to the equation. Every gym has their issues, but each person has to decide for themselves what they can deal with and what they cannot. I find it interesting that some gyms can make their bottom line about money, but expect their customers to overlook that and remain "loyal".

 

[cheer25mom]

Well, given what I am seeing in our gym in the weeks leading up to tryouts I am praying that they make the decision to use crossovers this year. Otherwise I just cannot see how we can field level appropriate teams. We just don't have enough kids. I just don think that crossing kids between say Junior 3 and Youth 2 or Youth 2 and Mini 1 is such a bad thing in a gym where it needs to be done to field a team for everyone. I am talking 10-12 kids per team with everyone having an opportunity to compete close to their level and still have a team with the 75% needed to get into the high range. I just don't think it can be done without crossovers.