All-Star Crossovers Just To Get Paid

[SL&AM]

Scenario: You unplug the speaker cables while a competitor is performing, then have your team yell the wrong counts as loud as they can at the team. No rule book rules broken. Ethical?

Now you're just giving them ideas ;p

 

[quitthedrama]

Scenario: You unplug the speaker cables while a competitor is performing, then have your team yell the wrong counts as loud as they can at the team. Would that still be ethical? It doesn't break any rule in the rule book.

I grant you that the team-stacking situation is a little more nuanced, but I do NOT believe that it is automatically OK to do anything that doesn't break a rule.

My moral compass doesn't like this any more than crossovers. I would argue there should be a rule against it.
I do think that with anything, the more often it occurs the less of a shock it is. I used to jump up and down and be so upset about crossovers - to be clear I think there should be very strict crossover rules, but now I see it happen so often that I feel in many cases it is the only way to stay competitive as long as the current rules are in place. If someone were to unplug the speaker cables and yell the wrong counts I would feel far more strongly about that - but I would probably become far less upset about it when 85% of teams started doing it in order to stay competitive.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Forget who said it but someone said something I hadn't thought of before....it would be awesome if there was someway to have the same rules for bid competitions as for worlds itself. Worlds doesn't allow crossovers, but bid competitions do. If it were logistically possible (and I'm not sure how possible that is) it would be a fix if an athlete's name can only appear on ONE team's bid through the season. So the first team you get the bid with, is the team you're going to worlds with. Maybe even have a clause that each program (in total, not individual team) can only have a change to 3 athletes (in case something catastrophic happens and there's a legit reason to shift a kid from a team after a bid is earned). That would fix the issue. Let's face it, the kids who cross to other teams have usually earned a bid long before the team they're helping does.

I would love it if the rules that applied to worlds I applied to worlds bid competitions. I feel like them using the worlds scoresheet for worlds bid competitions is a step in that direction (that is going on this year isn't it?) so that concept just needs to be expanded.

 

[Fiercecheermom]

Forget who said it but someone said something I hadn't thought of before....it would be awesome if there was someway to have the same rules for bid competitions as for worlds itself. Worlds doesn't allow crossovers, but bid competitions do. If it were logistically possible (and I'm not sure how possible that is) it would be a fix if an athlete's name can only appear on ONE team's bid through the season. So the first team you get the bid with, is the team you're going to worlds with. Maybe even have a clause that each program (in total, not individual team) can only have a change to 3 athletes (in case something catastrophic happens and there's a legit reason to shift a kid from a team after a bid is earned). That would fix the issue. Let's face it, the kids who cross to other teams have usually earned a bid long before the team they're helping does.

I would love it if the rules that applied to worlds I applied to worlds bid competitions. I feel like them using the worlds scoresheet for worlds bid competitions is a step in that direction (that is going on this year isn't it?) so that concept just needs to be expanded.

I am thinking that was my comment a few pages back...I have always said that the same rules should apply obtaining a bid as the actual event itself...makes things a little bit better...

 

[12stepCheermom]

I am thinking that was my comment a few pages back...I have always said that the same rules should apply obtaining a bid as the actual event itself...makes things a little bit better...

Might've been, I was just too lazy to go back and find the comment after I'd read through the thread. It's a good idea. I like it.

 

[stuntjumptumble]

Solution: crossovers become illegal all around, no matter the comp no matter what. The end :)


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[crazzyeyesassypants]

Solution: crossovers become illegal all around, no matter the comp no matter what. The end :)


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How about crossing over within the same level? I also think that The Summit needs so have the same rule as NCA, so we don't end up having level 5 kids flying level 2 :(


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[stuntjumptumble]

How about crossing over within the same level? I also think that The Summit needs so have the same rule as NCA, so we don't end up having level 5 kids flying level 2 :(


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Yup that too


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[12stepCheermom]

How about crossing over within the same level? I also think that The Summit needs so have the same rule as NCA, so we don't end up having level 5 kids flying level 2 :(


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Or a whole level two team that is actually level five.

 

[Mamarazzi]

And back we go to the moral compass issue. This should not be an okay point of view when we are talking about working with kids. Gyms and coaches should want to do better for their athletes. 5 years from now no one is going to care about that kid's full paid bid...that kid's character and moral compass, well that is there to stay and is greatly influenced by the coaches/owners they spend so much of their lives with. Personally, I want more for my kid so yeah, I'll open up my wallet to send her to Worlds any day rather than teach her it's ok to be unethical if it isn't against the rules.

You could also make the argument that there may be a great athlete (or 15) on a team that was in no way capable of making the Worlds trip without a paid bid. So, 5 years from now, would those athletes remember HOW they got there, or would they remember the fun, memories and opportunity they had to go?
I'm of the opinion that morals can't be black-and-white. There will always be an exception to the "rule." I don't think broke, talented kids should miss out because Mommy and/or Daddy can't pay a grand for a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

 

[cheerKT]

Eliminating crossovers sounds good in theory, until your team is stuck with an injury the week of competition. Or your team has a member not make it to a competition for whatever reason. Or your small gym has a handful of members quit and needs replacements.

Crossovers are necessary in certain situations. Placing limitations on them is totally possible, however.

 

[BlueCat]

You could also make the argument that there may be a great athlete (or 15) on a team that was in no way capable of making the Worlds trip without a paid bid. So, 5 years from now, would those athletes remember HOW they got there, or would they remember the fun, memories and opportunity they had to go?
I'm of the opinion that morals can't be black-and-white. There will always be an exception to the "rule." I don't think broke, talented kids should miss out because Mommy and/or Daddy can't pay a grand for a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

I get the whole "spectrum" idea of how wrong something is. However, roughly the same number of kids go either way. That paid bid doesn't disappear, it goes to a different team - one that isn't using temporary ringers. It just changes which set of broke, talented kids are sitting at home instead of going to Worlds.

My solution: once you have been on the floor with Team A to earn a bid with a team, you can't be on the floor to help a different team earn/upgrade a bid that season. You can compete with Team B, they just aren't eligible to get new bids with you on the floor. In other words, athletes can only help one team a season get a Worlds bid.

 

[crazzyeyesassypants]

Eliminating crossovers sounds good in theory, until your team is stuck with an injury the week of competition. Or your team has a member not make it to a competition for whatever reason. Or your small gym has a handful of members quit and needs replacements.

Crossovers are necessary in certain situations. Placing limitations on them is totally possible, however.

With all the $$ parents are spending into the sport I'm sure that there is a way for them to figure it out, I'm so tired of defending cheer when DH complains about how much we pay and all the politics and crossover issues, I'm running out of excuses as to why we continue to pay for it, at the end of the day I try to remind him that we are doing this because CP loves it and has a passion for it, besides life isn't always fair [emoji30]


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[crazzyeyesassypants]

You know what the sad part is, that gyms and coaches that were completely against crossovers to win 2 or 3 years ago are crossing athletes over now, I'm sure they are thinking if we can't beat them then let join them! I hope not every gym starts having that attitude


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[CheerDad18]

Or a whole level two team that is actually level five.

My CP gym is a small gym and they try to keep cross overs to a minimum. After the start of the season 2 or 3 crossovers on a team have a tendency to creep up one or two more athletes with injuries or if people quit mid season. Without the crossovers our teams would be very smal 13 or 14 girls vs 15 to 17 girls.I have no problem with an athlete competing up or down one level. Do I think it's ethical to create a stacked team just to win? NO. My definition of stacked would be 50% of the athletes have higher level tumbling skills than where they compete.

Here is a question for you if you have 4 girls that have level 5 skills but have no level 5 team is it a problem to compete level 4?