Declaring Levels

[cheerbri]

Oh now I get it. It's a good level now that I know about it

 

[Deleted member 1556]

im afraid of 4.2 turning into a huge thing: like levels 3.1, 5.2, ect...

 

[King]

I don't get the level senior 4.2. like what's the point of it?

Don't take this the wrong way...what is the point of level 1? level 2? Level 5? Tiny? Junior? Senior 5 open? Any level/age group for that matter!

I see the point to ALL levels...learn new skills (both cheerwise and life skills), make friends to last a lifetime, get exercise - do something other than sitting on the couch, learn how to be a leader, learn how to work as group, learn how to set goals and the steps needed to achieve those goals. There are many others but that is just a start!

I have struggled with the 4.2 issue (I was not a believer at first and I still think there need to be some adjustments made) but it IS a good thing. I think a huge positive of this level is the potential for kids to come off these teams and onto college cheer squads and be great at it. It could be cheering football games and basketball games or it could be on an intermediate competitive college team (which is similar to this level). But there are many kids who want to cheer college (who aren't level 5 kids) and if they are stuck at level 2 stunts they are going to be behind when it comes to those college teams.

From a coaches standpoint, I am thinking they would love it if the graduated cheerleader from their program went to college and was told what an great stunter they were. I am sure that athlete would proudly say, "I cheered at such and such gym." Those college coaches may remember that. And when they are holding a clinic or doing basic recruiting take another look at the kids that came out of that program.

That sounds great in theory but why are there still way more senior level 2 than level 4.2? I think it has to do with the fact that level 4 stunting skills are not easy. Double downs, kick full baskets, fullups, and switch ups require a lot of body control. If a set stunt group was to have that body control than more than likely they would also have more than a handspring. The particular kid they are thinking of who is busting their butt to have all their stunting skills would have to try pretty hard to ignore their tumbling. There is always a few examples but from what I have seen from this division the well thought out idea has not come across as much.

The assumption is that because of high school cheerleading or late entrance into the game there is a ton of these kids that tumble level 2 but stunt level 4. I think more the reality is there are a bunch of these kids that might tumble level 2 ish but stunt level 3 ish. I think lots of us would have been fine with 3.2 more than 4.2.

Again, a solid solution would be to get rid of 4.2 and change what senior level 2 is (dont add another level). Give them extended 1 leg stunts (maybe highest they can do is just liberty) non twisting baskets (toe touches) and a small bump in pyramid legalities. You would not have to adjust level 3 because you could still do more

 

[KB_Legend]

Where does that leave the senior level 2 teams that work hard all year to perfect level 2 skills?? If it takes your Sr 2 team months just to hit solid prep level 1 leg stunts they are going to have a very hard time doing extended 1 leg stunts!

I do agree with the fact that most of the REAL 4.2 kids are mental block kids or kids that have had some type of injury, I do NOT believe that an athlete who is nearing their maximum potential as a tumbler with standing 1 backhandspring is also nearing their maximum potential as a stunted with full ups and double downs, JMO

 

[King]

Where does that leave the senior level 2 teams that work hard all year to perfect level 2 skills?? If it takes your Sr 2 team months just to hit solid prep level 1 leg stunts they are going to have a very hard time doing extended 1 leg stunts!

I do agree with the fact that most of the REAL 4.2 kids are mental block kids or kids that have had some type of injury, I do NOT believe that an athlete who is nearing their maximum potential as a tumbler with standing 1 backhandspring is also nearing their maximum potential as a stunted with full ups and double downs, JMO

I think the current solution bugs me, but I get where you are coming from KB. How do you get a senior excited to do allstar when they may look down upon stunting at the half level?

 

[Deleted member 15]

4.2 was created to give these kids a better chance of winning, not to give them a chance to compete. The kids in 4.2 could compete level 4 (or 5 or 6) and perform all the skills they have, but since they don't have tumbling they wouldn't place well. There has always been a division for them to compete, but now they have a division they can win.

 

[KB_Legend]

4.2 was created to give these kids a better chance of winning, not to give them a chance to compete. The kids in 4.2 could compete level 4 (or 5 or 6) and perform all the skills they have, but since they don't have tumbling they wouldn't place well. There has always been a division for them to compete, but now they have a division they can win.

If you can only execute well in half or two thirds of the scoresheet do you need to or diserve to win??

 

[garretttt]

I think that 4.2 is more for the high school kids. Like if your on a high school squad, more than likely your doing extended one leg stunts and probably doing a full/double down from it. And why would you want to pay twice as much as high school to be on a team that only allows prep level extended stunts. I see level 2 as a beginners level and 4.2 as more of a team for high school cheerleaders who want to push their stunting abilities..

 

[FLcoach]

While it being an interesting concept, most level 4.2 teams don't have majority level 2 tumbling and don't have majority level 4 stunting.

Why not get rid of 4.2 and add in a senior non tumbling division instead. Put the stunts around level 3ish and see what happens. Try that for a year in place of senior 4.2, I bet a lot of gyms could get a lot of new kids into their gyms- grow a love of cheerleading in them, and in turn those kids would become level 2's, and 3's the next year- it's somewhat of a transitional level for older kids to get started in cheer without being a Senior Level 1.

It would be worth a shot and it would probably get a lot of older kids who otherwise wouldn't try out at a gym to try it.

 

[Deleted member 15]

4.2 was created to give these kids a better chance of winning, not to give them a chance to compete. The kids in 4.2 could compete level 4 (or 5 or 6) and perform all the skills they have, but since they don't have tumbling they wouldn't place well. There has always been a division for them to compete, but now they have a division they can win.

If you can only execute well in half or two thirds of the scoresheet do you need to or diserve to win??

No.

 

[ShoWStoppeR]

there are some teams out there that really do have to drop a level. if you're overly optimistic about your team going level 5(or any level, just an example) but you start competing and see you're struggling to hit the scoresheet, it's a possibility that your team just isn't there, and sometimes it takes more than the first comp to realize this. now am i supporting teams that compete all season one level and kick butt and then drop a level? no. but say you have a small gym that does fairly decent in level 4 and they decide to drop to level 3, they probably can compete really well with those level 3s, but if they would have gone level 4 they would have been smoked. it all depends on the scenario. while i was at NCA, i was watching another team with a fierceboarder, and they were competing in i believe open 5, and they had just recently received a bid to worlds. if you are good enough to get a bid to worlds, you better be good enough to compete in your real division at NCA because those are the same teams you will be seeing come worlds. if you are afraid to compete against those teams because you're afraid to lose, you're only wasting your time and hurting your team.

 

[Mclovin]

Showstopper -- I think there's a clear difference between a team that TRIED to go level 4 and just didn't do as well as they had hoped at their first couple comps so they dropped a level versus a team that has EVERYTHING they need to be level 4 and drops to level 3 for the easy win. I also think dropping two levels is very shady. If you are dropping two levels because you realize mid-season your team wasn't as good as you thought, you clearly mis-evaluated them earlier in the season which makes me question your ability as a coach.

 

[twistlikethis]

This subject has come up several times in the last few days regarding declaring level. What does everyone think of this?

I am on the side that believes it is a good idea. I agree that there should be a way to switch if your situation changes but with that I believe you can only switch once. If you feel you need to go from 5 to 4 then that can be done, however, the remaining of the season you will have to stay 4. I also believe that you can only move up or down 1 level.

I will be interested to hear what everyone thinks!

i agree with this, and I think teams have to declare what level they are going to finish the season out by sometime in January. That way, NCA and other big nationals will be fair.

 

[LoveOnTop]

I think after X amount of competitions, the team should not be able to drop a level, but they can go one higher.

As for 4.2, I absolutely love the division. I have tried tumbling for years and it just obviously is never going to work, but I can base my butt off. Someone mentioned that most 4.2 teams don't have majority L2 tumbling and L4 stunting. If this is true, then I don't see the problem? You're never going to see a perfect 4.2 team, which makes the competition less tough. I'm now coaching a brand new gym, and we have many senior girls straight from High School. Why would we put them on a level 2 team doing prep level stunts? 4.2 is the best level that would fit them. But I do like the idea of calling it 2 1/2 and limiting the stunts.

 

[cheerislove8]

I think after X amount of competitions, the team should not be able to drop a level, but they can go one higher.

As for 4.2, I absolutely love the division. I have tried tumbling for years and it just obviously is never going to work, but I can base my butt off. Someone mentioned that most 4.2 teams don't have majority L2 tumbling and L4 stunting. If this is true, then I don't see the problem? You're never going to see a perfect 4.2 team, which makes the competition less tough. I'm now coaching a brand new gym, and we have many senior girls straight from High School. Why would we put them on a level 2 team doing prep level stunts? 4.2 is the best level that would fit them. But I do like the idea of calling it 2 1/2 and limiting the stunts.

I really like the idea of the 4.2 division. I am such a horrible tumbler, but I can do higher leveled stunts. I could never stand being stuck on a level 2 team doing stunts I've been doing since my days on D squad pop warner team so many years ago!

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