All-Star Designing A Scoresheet - Input?

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Rudags

Two Time Defending Champion, Board Comedian
Dec 14, 2009
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I have been given the opportunity to design a scoresheet for an independent event company. I am trying to get it set up so that you should already know your difficulty score goin into the competition (assuming you hit) and its the execution that will be up to the judges. What do you think about a scoresheet like that? It basically lists what you need to max out and gives you ranges for what you throw? I know it sounds complicated - but its really not. It is similar to a CSG scoresheet, but a little more level appropriate and a "norm" applied to our industry. Below is an example (Off the top of my head, Im starting with level 1 and 2 so havent got this far):

Level 5 Stunts:
Release Move Entry to a Stunt
Inversion
Twisting Entry to a Stunt
2-2&1/4 Twisting Dismount
Quantity Stunt (1 or 2 man based to max. flyers in air)
5.0 - One of the above in the routine
6.0 - Two of the above in the routine
7.0 - Three of the above in the routine
8.0 - Four of the above in the routine
9.0 - Five of the above in the routine

The scoresheet will be out of 10 - but the "starting value can only go up to a 9.0. There will be a list of roughly 4-10 Boxes on the Right that will be worth .1 added to the score, so it could be any of the following (I am allowing this to be the event producers choice on whatever they would like their "style" to be - Ill just make some up for now:

3 Advanced Body Positions
Energy Level
Sync.
Unique Transitions

Assuming they hit everything - The score thus far would be a 9.4 - which leave .6 left. This is where you can compare and contrast the division. Say a team does a switch up and a full up and another team does a high to high and a full and a half up. This will be where the judge can add .6 for the overall difficulty to the team with more advanced released and advanced twisting.
I am truely having a "from a coaches stand point" out look on the scoresheets - I hate when people say "Team A did this hard stunt, and Team B did this easy stunt, but team B got scored higher" This will eliminate any questions. It says what you need to max out!

If you DONT like this style of a scoresheet - Please give me your input on what you think would be a better idea! I am open to adjust. I just know that I want it to be CLEAR and allow for teams to max out based on what their team does - I feel that this follows the norm of what is expected for the Level 5 division. I know I made these up - The EP will choose what he likes. Maybe he doesnt like quantity stunts. Maybe he likes TWO stunt sections instead of one. Whatever - you get the jist.

If you completely hate this and think it sucks - feel free to say that too. I am looking for honest likes and dont likes for the scoresheets - I know there will never be a scoresheet that makes everyone happy, but am interested in your opinions!
 
I LOVE this scoresheet. I think this is exactly what teams need to understand what they need to do to win. It helps set goals. It also puts more of a value to difficulty, which I like. For example, the tiny team I coach does preps, an extension in their pyramid, and all round-offs, yet they keep getting beat by teams putting a foot on someones back and then doing a forward role. I think this would help put some emphasis on the teams who are really challenging themselves to do more difficult skills and really max out the scoresheet. I also think there should somehow be something about the percentage of people performing a skill for example: Level 5 stunts: 4 flyers switch up, while the point does some amazing, creative level five release move. Technically they did a level 5 release entry, but only one did it. I also feel it leaves less room for judges bias, its very clear. You do this, you get this many point, you can't dispute that
 
I also think there should somehow be something about the percentage of people performing a skill for example: Level 5 stunts: 4 flyers switch up, while the point does some amazing, creative level five release move. Technically they did a level 5 release entry, but only one did it. I also feel it leaves less room for judges bias, its very clear. You do this, you get this many point, you can't dispute that

On my scoresheet - I would have something like a "Highlight stunt" be something the judges could score higher. Although it doesnt have a point value - If you only scored a 9.4 and did all the elements - You should AT LEAST be a 9.5 for a Wow Stunt.

Im also thinking about having a "above majority" and "below majority" worked in the scoreeet some how
 
Level 5 Stunts:
Release Move Entry to a Stunt
Inversion
Twisting Entry to a Stunt
2-2&1/4 Twisting Dismount
Quantity Stunt (1 or 2 man based to max. flyers in air)
5.0 - One of the above in the routine
6.0 - Two of the above in the routine
7.0 - Three of the above in the routine
8.0 - Four of the above in the routine
9.0 - Five of the above in the routine

I don't understand the "of the above" part of this.
 
This is an example of a CSG scoresheet, which may help everyone understand what @Rudgas is aiming for. http://www.championspiritgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/StuntPyramid-Level3.pdf

Every box that is checked is going to add to your score. I think this style of score sheet is great because it can give you a good idea of where your difficulty score is going to end up. It shows you what you can do to max out and shows you what kind of credit you're going to get for the extra little things you'll add into your routine.
 
I don't like the CSG scoresheet because there are 15 elements that can add to the base score which makes it difficult on a judge to distinguish how much to add to the base score between 8 or 9 check marks or 13 or 15 check marks.
 
I do like, however, on the CSG scoresheet in the pyramid section where they have the elements only allowed in level 3 and one must complete those in order to max out; although, I believe an event company should teach the judges to score the highest to teams automatically based on having all of the legal elements of level 3 that are not allowed in level 2, BUT THIS MAY REQUIRE KNOWLEDGE ON THE JUDGE'S PART.
 
I don't like the CSG scoresheet because there are 15 elements that can add to the base score which makes it difficult on a judge to distinguish how much to add to the base score between 8 or 9 check marks or 13 or 15 check marks.

My checkmark box will be limited.... would you like that?
 
I do like, however, on the CSG scoresheet in the pyramid section where they have the elements only allowed in level 3 and one must complete those in order to max out; although, I believe an event company should teach the judges to score the highest to teams automatically based on having all of the legal elements of level 3 that are not allowed in level 2, BUT THIS MAY REQUIRE KNOWLEDGE ON THE JUDGE'S PART.

My scoresheet will be level appropriate. I agree CSG's scoresheet isnt always like that. Example: Level 2 - you need one handed cartwheels and dive rolls to max out...

When I have a rough draft, I will make sure I send it to you to see what you think. Just seeing if people like the "you know your starting value" approach.
 
This is an example of a CSG scoresheet, which may help everyone understand what @Rudgas is aiming for. http://www.championspiritgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/StuntPyramid-Level3.pdf

Every box that is checked is going to add to your score. I think this style of score sheet is great because it can give you a good idea of where your difficulty score is going to end up. It shows you what you can do to max out and shows you what kind of credit you're going to get for the extra little things you'll add into your routine.

I really like CSG's scoring as far as HOW IT IS DONE. HOWEVER, it requires skills that are NOT in the norm of our industry. If we took our Day 2 'CSG routine' to Worlds. We would get laughed at. We had a second stunt in our routine, but instead, we had to pull it out to throw our baskets twice and to add a helicopter. If I took my level 2s and added oen handed cartwheels and and added a dive forward roll before all of my tumbling passes - I would be laughed at. CSG has a unique scoresheet, but I like how it works, I just dont like what is asked. It was a pain to change our routines to meet CSG's requirements to max out so close to Worlds and US Finals. I will give CSG props though, because they TRUELY followed what was asked, no matter what you through. They counted to make sure you were limited, majority, or all. They were dead on with scoring. I like the way they do it so much, I am having an independent event adapt this style - with some tweeks and adjustments!
 
I'm not saying your ideas are poor, as they are much like gymnastics vault and bar routines. However, I think you should adhere to the Varsity scoring system or Jambrands scoring system out of the gate as an independent event producer. Any brand new divergent scoring systems defeat the goal of where we are trying to go as an industry. Universal Scoring System to bring legitimacy and consistency to our sport.

My suggestion would be to pair up with one of the organizations and present your ideas, as they are looking for improvements all the time.
 
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