All-Star Everything NCA 2022

[catlady]

I agree, except they are aware, do account for it and don't care. They had signs made that were posted outside the arena with the NCA logo and "arena is at capacity" or something along those lines. If they had to spend money to make signs, then they knew they were going to have a capacity problem!

Which comes back to where do they do it instead? They are holding these comps at some of the largest venues in the US. The top ten in size, updated in 2022, are in Chicago, Orlando, Atlanta, Las Vegas, New Orleans, St. Louis, San Diego, Detroit, Washington DC. <click here> Then you have time differences, hotel cost, airport size, restaurant access, etc.

I owned a business too and know all about fire code. Have you been on the floor of the arena? If you have, you would know that the access to go from the outside entrance to the entrance to the floor arena currently isn't used, and would be perfectly acceptable per the fire code. Nothing would be blocked and would be much safer. If each athlete were given two wristbands, there would be a maximum of 76 people going through priority (and that is only for a handful of teams - it would be more like 48 people for most teams). It takes more staff and coordination on Varsity's part but it certainly is safer and makes more sense.

I know you can't hear my tone, but I'm interested, not being an arse. So where would they go after the performance? If they just disperse, then they're in aisles looking for seats (fire marshal issue). If they go back out the outside door, then they're at risk of not getting back in because seats are full.

I'm definitely on the side of parents wanting to see their kids. However, I disagree an arena is anything like World's when it comes to time and safety. There's a big difference between people getting in and out of bleachers, free standing chairs, and wide aisles versus fixed arena seating with narrow rows and aisles. The new arena at ESPN WWoS didn't have priority seating either, I don't know if that's changed, but I would assume it's for the same reason.

 

[Knowcheering]

Which comes back to where do they do it instead? They are holding these comps at some of the largest venues in the US. The top ten in size, updated in 2022, are in Chicago, Orlando, Atlanta, Las Vegas, New Orleans, St. Louis, San Diego, Detroit, Washington DC. <click here> Then you have time differences, hotel cost, airport size, restaurant access, etc.

Like many people, I love the arena atmosphere for cheer competitions as opposed to just the typical convention center setup with a stage (especially for Level 6 teams). But the arena in Dallas seats only 9000ish (maybe less? Is there any floor seating at NCA, I can't remember?)

So what are some bigger arenas that are adjacent to convention centers? How about the Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines, Iowa? It seats 17,000 and is across the street from a convention center. Or the Greensboro Coliseum in NC which seats over 22,000 and is attached to a Special Events Center (they play collegiate basketball tournaments there). There must be other, better examples but I've only spent 5 min researching this.

I just feel like a major cheer competition deserves better than to be crammed into a tiny arena where parents are at risk of not seeing their kids compete (after paying a $50 entrance fee) and fire marshals threaten to shut the place down over something that is out of the spectators' control. Stop yelling at parents for not sitting down when you literally give them no place to sit.

At least have a priority viewing area-- it might alleviate a bit of overcrowding. Plenty of parents would be fine with watching their kid and leaving as opposed to occupying a seat all day in the arena out of fear that if they aren't parked there for hours they won't get to see their kid perform.

 

[UCFKnights07]

i am not nearly as in touch with the sport now a days. But i do wonder why they hold on to certain competition spaces for so long, full well knowing they are outgrowing the space.. unless behind close doors the contracts they sign with these vendors dont give them a choice but to stay till a certain date.
the NCA overcrowding has been a issue for YEARS, and they have never budged on a possibility of moving to a different venue, i mean great the convention center is being rebuilt with more space, but was NCA the sole reason why they are rebuilding bigger? or was it just luck, that the owners of said convention center finally decided to expand.

 

[catlady]

Like many people, I love the arena atmosphere for cheer competitions as opposed to just the typical convention center setup with a stage (especially for Level 6 teams). But the arena in Dallas seats only 9000ish (maybe less? Is there any floor seating at NCA, I can't remember?)

So what are some bigger arenas that are adjacent to convention centers? How about the Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines, Iowa? It seats 17,000 and is across the street from a convention center. Or the Greensboro Coliseum in NC which seats over 22,000 and is attached to a Special Events Center (they play collegiate basketball tournaments there). There must be other, better examples but I've only spent 5 min researching this.

I just feel like a major cheer competition deserves better than to be crammed into a tiny arena where parents are at risk of not seeing their kids compete (after paying a $50 entrance fee) and fire marshals threaten to shut the place down over something that is out of the spectators' control. Stop yelling at parents for not sitting down when you literally give them no place to sit.

At least have a priority viewing area-- it might alleviate a bit of overcrowding. Plenty of parents would be fine with watching their kid and leaving as opposed to occupying a seat all day in the arena out of fear that if they aren't parked there for hours they won't get to see their kid perform.

It's not just the arena, it's the adjacent convention space, which in the IA case is only 28,730 sq ft. There are many arenas large enough for just World's, but parents would have to foot the entire bill for it. Whether World's, NCA, The Major's, the non-World's teams are helping in price negotiations by renting the entire convention center/arena for a weekend or several weekends. These cities and Disney World want a certain amount in hotel taxes or park passes in return for their venues. Major/Minor/Collegiate sports have sponsors, cheer parents do not.

While I will give you 5 minute credit for investigating this, I will give the Varsity employees equal credit for years of having to follow the codes for the venues they occupy. Varsity provides VIP sections in most non-arena situations, including at NCA. From this article <click here>:

Most of the worst disasters in arenas and stadiums did not involve a blaze—instead resulting from the movement of large numbers of people during chaotic events.

Large occupant loads require a life safety evaluation​

When any assembly occupancy, including a sports arena or stadium, exceeds an occupant load of 6,000 people, a life safety evaluation—which goes beyond protecting against fire—

 

[Knowcheering]

It's not just the arena, it's the adjacent convention space, which in the IA case is only 28,730 sq ft.

That's the size of the "ballroom", but it seems the actual Iowa Convention Center is much larger. This is directly from the Iowa Events Center website- "We have 150,000 square feet of continuous exhibition space that can be broken into three separate halls of approximately 50,000 square feet each." And in attention to that, they have an arena that seats 17,000. I'm not familiar with cheer in Iowa, but I wonder if any competitions have ever used this space.

Another example- the Athletic Championships in Rhode Island is held at the Rhode Island Convention Center which is attached to the Dunkin Donuts Arena which seats 14,000. I recall going to this competition and walking back and forth from the arena to the convention center. How are these smaller competitions utilizing decent sized arenas, but the biggest competition of all, NCA, is crammed into a 9000 seat arena?

The price per athlete (and spectator fees) for these competitions is so high that the least event producers can do is provide a competition space that is adequately sized, not a safety hazard, and guarantees that parents can watch their own kid if they pay the spectator fee. But maybe I'm expecting too much. Maybe there is a better way to space out the Level 6 divisions in the Dallas arena so that all the "big name teams" aren't going on at similar times, but overall the arena just seems too small for a competition of this size.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Not only should parents be guaranteed to see their kids compete in some form of priority viewing, but I have been saying for a long time:

Is it too much to ask for each athlete to get one free admission for a parent?

I’m not even asking for two free parent admits, just one.

When I coached high school I definitely had kids say that their parents really could not afford to come every single time. That’s a shame.

I get it, I’ve had to pay to watch my own kid in another sport but it is literally a max of $10.

These admission or spectator fees are getting higher every year in cheer. There’s no way that these companies cannot afford to give one per athlete. You don’t even have to give double for siblings. Just one per family. Come on.

Then should you be unable to afford the spectator fee, there is a stream you can watch that is also expensive. It’s just a lot.

 

[catlady]

That's the size of the "ballroom", but it seems the actual Iowa Convention Center is much larger. This is directly from the Iowa Events Center website- "We have 150,000 square feet of continuous exhibition space that can be broken into three separate halls of approximately 50,000 square feet each." And in attention to that, they have an arena that seats 17,000. I'm not familiar with cheer in Iowa, but I wonder if any competitions have ever used this space.

Another example- the Athletic Championships in Rhode Island is held at the Rhode Island Convention Center which is attached to the Dunkin Donuts Arena which seats 14,000. I recall going to this competition and walking back and forth from the arena to the convention center. How are these smaller competitions utilizing decent sized arenas, but the biggest competition of all, NCA, is crammed into a 9000 seat arena?

The price per athlete (and spectator fees) for these competitions is so high that the least event producers can do is provide a competition space that is adequately sized, not a safety hazard, and guarantees that parents can watch their own kid if they pay the spectator fee. But maybe I'm expecting too much. Maybe there is a better way to space out the Level 6 divisions in the Dallas arena so that all the "big name teams" aren't going on at similar times, but overall the arena just seems too small for a competition of this size.

IOWA EVENTS CENTER AT A GLANCE​

Specs

• Total Square Feet: 286,300
• Meeting Space Square Feet: 226,000
• Meeting Rooms: 37
• Exhibit Hall Square Feet: 150,000
• Ballroom Square Feet: 60,300

Sorry, my source was obviously incorrect, this is a different source. With that said, it's still not enough exhibit space for a lot of non-World's teams to help offset the price of a larger arena for World's teams. Kay Bailey has over 1,000,000 sq ft of exhibit space, "X" number of teams, "X" number of attendees, and "X" number of hotels (hotel tax) to help offset the price of the arena. IA's CC can not accommodate anywhere close to the same number of non-World teams, hotel tax revenue would be lower, and IA wouldn't have the same amount of fan base attendance as in TX. That revenue loss translates into higher athlete and admission fees for parents.

@oncecoolcoachnowmom in Atlanta, a local, private youth sport rents out a nearby HS gym for a day. They have parents and teams funneling in and out all day and charge around $10 per person (less for kids) to break even. If cheer parents want to have World's at a HS gym, $10 might be feasible.

A sad example of reality, look at what Star Wars/EPCOT $2B addition/renovation plus COVID19 limited attendance did to park hopper prices (Disney's requirement to get ESPN). A few years ago I think we paid around $270 for a 3 day park hopper, they're around $480 now. Of course I think parents deserve to see their kids perform, but the majority of parents realize they will ultimately pay the price for any larger venues (there aren't but a few larger) or reduction in attendees to pay for assigned seating.

 

[UCFKnights07]

IOWA EVENTS CENTER AT A GLANCE​

Specs

• Total Square Feet: 286,300
• Meeting Space Square Feet: 226,000
• Meeting Rooms: 37
• Exhibit Hall Square Feet: 150,000
• Ballroom Square Feet: 60,300

Sorry, my source was obviously incorrect, this is a different source. With that said, it's still not enough exhibit space for a lot of non-World's teams to help offset the price of a larger arena for World's teams. Kay Bailey has over 1,000,000 sq ft of exhibit space, "X" number of teams, "X" number of attendees, and "X" number of hotels (hotel tax) to help offset the price of the arena. IA's CC can not accommodate anywhere close to the same number of non-World teams, hotel tax revenue would be lower, and IA wouldn't have the same amount of fan base attendance as in TX. That revenue loss translates into higher athlete and admission fees for parents.

@oncecoolcoachnowmom in Atlanta, a local, private youth sport rents out a nearby HS gym for a day. They have parents and teams funneling in and out all day and charge around $10 per person (less for kids) to break even. If cheer parents want to have World's at a HS gym, $10 might be feasible.

A sad example of reality, look at what Star Wars/EPCOT $2B addition/renovation plus COVID19 limited attendance did to park hopper prices (Disney's requirement to get ESPN). A few years ago I think we paid around $270 for a 3 day park hopper, they're around $480 now. Of course I think parents deserve to see their kids perform, but the majority of parents realize they will ultimately pay the price for any larger venues (there aren't but a few larger) or reduction in attendees to pay for assigned seating.

ehh disney has been a rip off for years now, so im not really surprised. But im also not surprised they hiked up the prices to offset what they lost during the covid shutdown, all of the parks have raised their prices, in pretty much every aspect.

 

[NJ Coach]

Part of the problem with finding a place that has a big enough space for one of these competitions is also everything else. Is there a big enough airport close to the space? Are there enough hotels? Using Iowa as the example, there isn't a direct flight from my closest airport to Des Moines airport. If I want direct, I have to go to a further airport outside of my state. That doesn't work for many people. So, in addition to finding a convention center big enough, you need a city (town) with the infrastructure to handle everyone. That's not easy.

 

[clueless]

Question:

I thought ALL Cheerabilities got rated outstanding/superior/etc.

I didn't know the elite Cheerabilities teams actually got placed/ranked with one winner.

Is that new?

That is actually really cool. Part of inclusion = having the experiences that your peers have - and that includes sometimes coming in 2nd, third, or 10th.

Late reply and I apologize if someone has already answered. Scoring for CheerAbilities is new this year. There are 3 divisions now instead of 3 sections to one division. The Elite division is now a traditional division with ordinal placings and rankings. Only the top team gets jackets.

As Carrier said during awards, our kids need to learn how to win and how not to win. I know my daughter is thrilled to finally be able to actually compete as she is extremely competitive. Thank you to the USASF CheerAbilities board for implementing these changes!