All-Star For The Judges

[imrichhowboutu]

I'm not sure not having a ceiling is a good idea, but please tell us why it is.

Wouldnt the answer to this be the same answer to the reason why gymnastics switched.

Things are evolving... so what is expected is evolving. wouldn't it be easier to have a system that could just be added to instead of changed?


And whoever says that if the hypothetical team went first and the next team went and they wouldn't score them lower has to be lying. Scoring in some part is based off of what everyone is doing... which is what king keeps saying and people keep disagreeing with.

Whether or not the score sheet tells you what you have to score... If someone does an amazing stunt... and everyone else does a full up and a tick tock. then the full up and the tick tock are the norm and should score an average level 5 score.

Also in regards to the scoring and giving out perfect scores. I think they should be given out more often. If your jumps are flawless and you have every person on the team do them... why shouldnt you score perfect? The scoresheet asked for something... you gave it... why don't the scores reflect that?

 

[cheer36mom]

So if a team performed something better than what you expect the best thing in that level is, there wouldnt be a way to reward it.

I have to say I definetly see where you are coming from with this thread and I feel tht more often than not teams are scored on who did what before you the reason I say this is numerous times this season we have competed last in our division all teams ahead of us did switch ups for their sequence we came and performed stretch to stretc tic toks but scored the same in difficulty well because it was assumed that switch ups were as good as it was going to get there was no room for reward for a more difficult sequence and yes in theory of your original post something should be in place for teams attempting these skills to score in a higher difficulty range

 

[King]

Judging at the moment is based off your peers completely. Since no skill has a set value when a judge see's your routine they have to determine, in relation to your competition everywhere [but I still think influenced by who is at the actual competition] how your stunt sequence scores. The flaw, as it just occured to me yesterday and Andre and I were discussion, is that a judge shouldn't be determining difficulty, ratios, and execution at the same time. How can we expect a judge to fully appreciate a stunt sequence... or tumbling sequence (or anything mind you) when they have to see it, quantify the difficulty which is supposed to be objective and then appreciate the choreography and execution which is supposed to be subjective at once?

OK, so here is my solution: all skills and routines have pre-determined start values of difficulty. The judge's job is just to score the execution / choreography in one score while watching and allows scores to not have a ceiling (difficulty doesn't max out.. just starts somewhere). The judge would watch WCSS new amazing never seen before stunt and then score execution on how well they are presenting an already ranked stunt sequence. If they noticed that all those double ups are really just straight ups you can kill the execution score.

Hurdles and roadblocks - at this exact moment ignore HOW all the elements would be scored beforehand. Will work on that if the idea at competition would be agreed upon that it works.

Still working on how this work would exactly.

 

[MissBee]

Hurdles and roadblocks - at this exact moment ignore HOW all the elements would be scored beforehand. Will work on that if the idea at competition would be agreed upon that it works.

Still working on how this work would exactly.

Gymnastics has a Code of Points. the COP outlines every skill and gives it a value A (easiest) to G (hardest). There is a Technical Committee that determines skill difficulty levels. If you want to compete a skill that isn't in the COP, you must submit the skill to the committee for approval BEFORE competing it. If it is approved, it is added to the COP and you may compete it. In gymnastics, the first person to successfully stick a skill they submitted in international competition has that skill named after them.

There are two scores in a competition the D (difficulty) and the E (execution). There are two judge panels at each event, a D and an E.

The D-score (or Difficulty score) evaluates the content of the exercise on three criteria: the Difficulty Value (DV), Composition Requirements (CR) and Connection Value (CV).
* DV: The difficulty value of the eight highest value elements of the routine, including the dismount, are added together. Elements are ranked depending on their difficulty; for example on beam, a back layout salto to two feet is given a difficulty of E, and a back layout salto with a full twist is given a difficulty of G. For a G skill a gymnast earns 0.7; for an E, he or she earns 0.5 points.
* CR: Gymnasts must demonstrate skills from five required Element Groups on each apparatus. A gymnast may use skills to fulfill the DV and the CR simultaneously. For each CR presented, 0.5 points are awarded. A maximum score of 2.50 points may be earned here.
* CV: Additional points are given for connections of two or more elements of specific value, with 0.1 or 0.2 points apiece.
Although the A judging panel does not take deductions, they may decide not to give gymnasts DV or CR points for elements that are performed with falls. A gymnast may also lose CV credit if there are extra steps or pauses between skills that are meant to be connected.
The D-score is open-ended; in theory a gymnast could obtain unlimited points by performing connected skills although this was made harder in the 2009-2012 revision of the code when the number of elements that counted towards the D-score was lowered.
The E-score (or Execution score) evaluates the performance: the execution and artistry of the routine.

• The base score is 10.0. Judges do not add to this, but rather, take away points for errors in form, artistry, execution, technique and routine composition. There is a 1.0 mark deduction for falling off an apparatus. Errors that are made are judged to be small, medium or large and respective 0.1, 0.3 and 0.5 deductions are taken.

The D-score and E-score are added together for the gymnast's final mark.

I can see this system being modified to fit the needs of a cheer routine.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Gymnastics has a Code of Points. the COP outlines every skill and gives it a value A (easiest) to G (hardest). There is a Technical Committee that determines skill difficulty levels. If you want to compete a skill that isn't in the COP, you must submit the skill to the committee for approval BEFORE competing it. If it is approved, it is added to the COP and you may compete it. In gymnastics, the first person to successfully stick a skill they submitted in international competition has that skill named after them.

There are two scores in a competition the D (difficulty) and the E (execution). There are two judge panels at each event, a D and an E.

The D-score (or Difficulty score) evaluates the content of the exercise on three criteria: the Difficulty Value (DV), Composition Requirements (CR) and Connection Value (CV).
* DV: The difficulty value of the eight highest value elements of the routine, including the dismount, are added together. Elements are ranked depending on their difficulty; for example on beam, a back layout salto to two feet is given a difficulty of E, and a back layout salto with a full twist is given a difficulty of G. For a G skill a gymnast earns 0.7; for an E, he or she earns 0.5 points.
* CR: Gymnasts must demonstrate skills from five required Element Groups on each apparatus. A gymnast may use skills to fulfill the DV and the CR simultaneously. For each CR presented, 0.5 points are awarded. A maximum score of 2.50 points may be earned here.
* CV: Additional points are given for connections of two or more elements of specific value, with 0.1 or 0.2 points apiece.
Although the A judging panel does not take deductions, they may decide not to give gymnasts DV or CR points for elements that are performed with falls. A gymnast may also lose CV credit if there are extra steps or pauses between skills that are meant to be connected.
The D-score is open-ended; in theory a gymnast could obtain unlimited points by performing connected skills although this was made harder in the 2009-2012 revision of the code when the number of elements that counted towards the D-score was lowered.
The E-score (or Execution score) evaluates the performance: the execution and artistry of the routine.

• The base score is 10.0. Judges do not add to this, but rather, take away points for errors in form, artistry, execution, technique and routine composition. There is a 1.0 mark deduction for falling off an apparatus. Errors that are made are judged to be small, medium or large and respective 0.1, 0.3 and 0.5 deductions are taken.

The D-score and E-score are added together for the gymnast's final mark.
I can see this system being modified to fit the needs of a cheer routine.

The hard part of adjusting gymnastics scoring is taking something designed to score one person and apply it to the combinations that arise with up to 36 people performing at the same time. It's not impossible, but it's a lot more complicated.

 

[MissBee]

The hard part of adjusting gymnastics scoring is taking something designed to score one person and apply it to the combinations that arise with up to 36 people performing at the same time. It's not impossible, but it's a lot more complicated.

Definitely. The basic concept is what we need. 2 panels of judges: difficulty and execution. I would include the legality judge in the difficulty panel. It would require a few years of development where it could get to the point of being utilized. Also, we really would need to have a single score sheet at that point for the entire sport.

 

[KB_Legend]

Creating set values for stunts will essentially make that section compulsory also... If you put down on paper that stunt "X" is worth the most points then the vast majority of teams will be competing stunt "X" regardless of what the stunt is or how well they can actually do this... I understand why set values is appealing and I also recognize that stunt sequences (and baskets even more so) are already very similar as it is, but you put a point value on skills and they will be exactly the same...

Also I think the gymnastics system is slightly different for the reasons andre stated and because they have SO many more combinations of skills due to much less restriction at the high levels. If we are talking about stunts, you can release, you can spin up to 2 times on the way up and up to 2.25 times on the way down and essentially that's it, just not enough skills to require a score with no high end IMO

 

[Keep_Believing]

Quick ? @ scores. If the score sheet says the majority of the team must be tumbling for full points, is that 50% or 70% of the team members? I thought 70%, but some other parents thought it means 50%.
Thanks

 

[Deleted member 15]

Quick ? @ scores. If the score sheet says the majority of the team must be tumbling for full points, is that 50% or 70% of the team members? I thought 70%, but some other parents thought it means 50%.
Thanks

Varsity is Half+1, Cheersport is 2/3. Jammy has a quantity score based on how many you do.

 

[Keep_Believing]

Thanks! :)

 

[cheerislove9]

I could be wrong, but wasn't the 1.25 up a level 5 skill? Or was that level 4 too?

Level 4, my team did 1.25 ups this year.