All-Star Getting Caught...

[mhgirlymom]

I don't know. It took me several years to figure out anything about cheer and its levels, and rules, and divisions. I had to do it on my own, because it certainly wasn't put out there by our first gym owner.

And there is a kid at our gym whom I have been driving for two and a half years. The parents are almost never present for practices, and have only attended a few competitions. They most certainly do not know the rules. Not because they are bad parents, but because they have six children, all of whom they support in following their passions. In order to do this they have to rely on others sometimes, and can't know everything there is to know about every industry. They should be able to rely on a gyms "certifications" to know that there is a minimum standard that is being followed.

If a gym is allowed to advertise itself as a USASF member, it should also mean that the member is in good standing. I believe I should, as a consumer, be allowed to verify if there have been any sanctions against them. Not sure that all parents would do this, but the information should be available to me in my decision making.

I agree. Kinda like you can look up doctors to see if they have any malpractice suits.


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[Mom2Cheergirls]

I don't know. It took me several years to figure out anything about cheer and its levels, and rules, and divisions. I had to do it on my own, because it certainly wasn't put out there by our first gym owner.

And there is a kid at our gym whom I have been driving for two and a half years. The parents are almost never present for practices, and have only attended a few competitions. They most certainly do not know the rules. Not because they are bad parents, but because they have six children, all of whom they support in following their passions. In order to do this they have to rely on others sometimes, and can't know everything there is to know about every industry. They should be able to rely on a gyms "certifications" to know that there is a minimum standard that is being followed.

If a gym is allowed to advertise itself as a USASF member, it should also mean that the member is in good standing. I believe I should, as a consumer, be allowed to verify if there have been any sanctions against them. Not sure that all parents would do this, but the information should be available to me in my decision making.

We have a couple of girls in our gym that are 6 kid families and play other sports themselves as well and the parents are not there all the time but they make sure they are at any parent meeting and that they get to know the other parents and kids on the team and know what is going on in our gym and the rules of not just cheer but the other sports the kids are playing (and even coach more than one of those other sports --- and the dad even travels for work so it can happen even with 6 kids). They also reach out to parent reps and ask questions. We had a family with terminal illness and that family took the time to know what is going on so even in extreme situations a parent has the ability to educate themselves. We also have parents who drop at the door and keep on driving and some know what is going on still and some have no clue (we also have parents who sit in the gym who have no clue even though our gym really provides us information and rules in many formats).

A good gym should provide those details to parents in the very beginning and I have been at a couple of gyms and all of them have found it important to do that and yes I know there are parents even in our gym that would not have a clue but in the end ignorance is never an excuse. As capable adults the resources are available not only from our kids gyms but online for all parents to get a basic understanding while it would be professional for a gym to educate and I feel they should we as parents have personal responsibility as well to understand where our money and MOST importantly our children are at and how that activity works.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

We have a couple of girls in our gym that are 6 kid families and play other sports themselves as well and the parents are not there all the time but they make sure they are at any parent meeting and that they get to know the other parents and kids on the team and know what is going on in our gym and the rules of not just cheer but the other sports the kids are playing (and even coach more than one of those other sports --- and the dad even travels for work so it can happen even with 6 kids). They also reach out to parent reps and ask questions. We had a family with terminal illness and that family took the time to know what is going on so even in extreme situations a parent has the ability to educate themselves. We also have parents who drop at the door and keep on driving and some know what is going on still and some have no clue (we also have parents who sit in the gym who have no clue even though our gym really provides us information and rules in many formats).

A good gym should provide those details to parents in the very beginning and I have been at a couple of gyms and all of them have found it important to do that and yes I know there are parents even in our gym that would not have a clue but in the end ignorance is never an excuse. As capable adults the resources are available not only from our kids gyms but online for all parents to get a basic understanding while it would be professional for a gym to educate and I feel they should we as parents have personal responsibility as well to understand where our money and MOST importantly our children are at and how that activity works.

I can appreciate those parents for sure, but am not comfortable condemning the parents I know personally for their lack of knowledge. I think it is reasonable for a parent to make an assumption that an accreditation means something. Even if they were keenly aware of the rules, the divisions, etc., they wouldn't necessarily know the ages and levels of every athlete on every team... Nor should they be expected to. So my question is, that if a gym is making decisions to break the rules, should the parents rely on the gym to be the ones to report that?

 

[AScheer]

A good gym should provide those details to parents in the very beginning.

But does a new parent double check this or take it as face value? Even long time parents. My guess is if a gym says "insert claim here" that 90% or more of parents and athletes will believe it with no question. If a gym will cheat to win a competition, don't you think they'll lie to the parents or use creative wording on the documents. It's even been said many times here in Fierceboardland that FC was caught cheating, but apparently the gym families are in the dark and think something else happened (all hearsay of course as I'm not part of this gym and have only read about it on this board.)

There should be an online registry on USASF's website that lists every registered gym by state, their current standing and any rule violations in the past so many seasons. If a parent doesn't use resources or chooses to stay uninformed than that is on them, but the resource should be there, public and easy to find.

 

[ACEDAD]

There used to be a section on the USASF web site that listed gyms that had been sanctioned and what the reason was, etc. But I haven't looked at it in a long time, so I don't know of it's still there.


**A cheer year and a dog year ages you the same.**

 

[catlady]

Given that every state has their own laws on this issue, it may not be realistic for every Tiny or Mini aged kid to even be able to be issued a state ID, therefore, you'd be telling the parents to go poney up for a passport instead. The additional cost/time required would likely draw away as many parents as the ones who'd do it---especially among the younger athletes. The whole purpose of the $30 I spent for my CP's USASF membership is so they have her BC and a headshot to compare her to; if that isn't enough, then do way with the $30 I have to spend and I'll go poney up $20 to get her a FL ID. Thankfully she's over 5 so she can get one, but I would outright refuse to pay for both.

IMO, if cheating was dealt with more severely this wouldn't be an issue. But because USASF refuses to take a hardball stance on it, we'll continue to see it.

How old do I have to be to get an ID Card? - DMV Answers

It appears there are six states where age might be an issue, and in those states, a parent is required to sign for their kids ID under a certain age. While I don't want to minimize cheating in Tiny's and Mini's, they aren't going for monetary bids, at least any I know of so, make it for Youth teams and above if that's an issue. If parents are willing to spend money for posh ponies and eyelashes, I tend to believe they would pay $20-30 to help keep the integrity of the sport. While I'm all for consequences, IMO the moment is gone once awards are over. With prevention, our kids get the moment and what is rightfully theirs. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but, to me, that's worth the cost of an ID.

 

[njallday]

How old do I have to be to get an ID Card? - DMV Answers

It appears there are six states where age might be an issue, and in those states, a parent is required to sign for their kids ID under a certain age. While I don't want to minimize cheating in Tiny's and Mini's, they aren't going for monetary bids, at least any I know of so, make it for Youth teams and above if that's an issue. If parents are willing to spend money for posh ponies and eyelashes, I tend to believe they would pay $20-30 to help keep the integrity of the sport. While I'm all for consequences, IMO the moment is gone once awards are over. With prevention, our kids get the moment and what is rightfully theirs. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but, to me, that's worth the cost of an ID.

Do state ID's require both parents' permission? Or just passport? I know I needed a notarized letter from my dad that gave my mom permission to purchase my ID's since they were divorced. I got my state (or county?) ID the same day as my passport so it may have just been the passport.. which would make sense. I can't leave the country with a county ID but I can get on a plane with it to go to another state so actually not sure. Hope not or that could open up a whole other can of worms. Or just don't cheat. whichever is easier.

 

[SL&AM]

How old do I have to be to get an ID Card? - DMV Answers

It appears there are six states where age might be an issue, and in those states, a parent is required to sign for their kids ID under a certain age. While I don't want to minimize cheating in Tiny's and Mini's, they aren't going for monetary bids, at least any I know of so, make it for Youth teams and above if that's an issue. If parents are willing to spend money for posh ponies and eyelashes, I tend to believe they would pay $20-30 to help keep the integrity of the sport. While I'm all for consequences, IMO the moment is gone once awards are over. With prevention, our kids get the moment and what is rightfully theirs. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but, to me, that's worth the cost of an ID.

It really depends on the end of the year competition; sure Tiny's and Mini's don't go to Summit, but the US Finals, Finale, The One...etc, all involve money bids. CP's team is a Mini team and has been competing with the hope of getting a paid bid to their end of the year. So I wouldn't count those divisions out.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

There used to be a section on the USASF web site that listed gyms that had been sanctioned and what the reason was, etc. But I haven't looked at it in a long time, so I don't know of it's still there.


**A cheer year and a dog year ages you the same.**

I looked (practice went an HOUR over this afternoon) but couldn't fmd. Doesn't mean it's not there though, I find that website difficult to navigate sometimes. I did find all the prevention of child abuse policies to be pretty interesting though. Seemed pretty clearly laid out in a way I didn't expect.

 

[catlady]

Do state ID's require both parents' permission? Or just passport? I know I needed a notarized letter from my dad that gave my mom permission to purchase my ID's since they were divorced. I got my state (or county?) ID the same day as my passport so it may have just been the passport.. which would make sense. I can't leave the country with a county ID but I can get on a plane with it to go to another state so actually not sure. Hope not or that could open up a whole other can of worms. Or just don't cheat. whichever is easier.

I actually like your "just don't cheat" comment best, problem solved. Getting a state ID, is MUCH easier than getting a passport but, I just read the header statement of what I posted about the six exception states just needing a parent signature. I just went to NJ's state ID site and it just says you must be 14 or older (it did not give any exceptions). Both of my kids took the PSAT prior to age 14, do you know what kids in the state of NJ have to show to take the PSAT prior to the age of 14? I am not for making life difficult for any family to cheer but, I do like the idea of preventing cheating up front. If there are only six states where a different process has to be used, I still think it is worth it.

It really depends on the end of the year competition; sure Tiny's and Mini's don't go to Summit, but the US Finals, Finale, The One...etc, all involve money bids. CP's team is a Mini team and has been competing with the hope of getting a paid bid to their end of the year. So I wouldn't count those divisions out.

I definitely don't want any age left out but, as you said, if a state ID isn't an option then a passport card would be needed. I personally, would be fine with showing or getting my kids a passport/passport card when monetary awards are involved but, I realize that's just me. A passport card lasts 5 years for kids and is $40 so, much less than curl formers or 2 spray tans. Personally, I've seen parents jump through hoops to get their kids birth certificates with divorce, fires, over seas adoption, etc. so, I tend to believe they would do the same for a State ID or p.c., if required. I'm trying to look at this from my kids point of view, and whether they are the team being stripped of the title, jackets, bids or the team that was robbed of their moment, they are ultimately the ones paying the consequence. Definitely, hit the gym owner for the crime but, I'm still for prevention upfront first.

 

[njallday]

I actually like your "just don't cheat" comment best, problem solved. Getting a state ID, is MUCH easier than getting a passport but, I just read the header statement of what I posted about the six exception states just needing a parent signature. I just went to NJ's state ID site and it just says you must be 14 or older (it did not give any exceptions). Both of my kids took the PSAT prior to age 14, do you know what kids in the state of NJ have to show to take the PSAT prior to the age of 14? I am not for making life difficult for any family to cheer but, I do like the idea of preventing cheating up front. If there are only six states where a different process has to be used, I still think it is worth it.



I definitely don't want any age left out but, as you said, if a state ID isn't an option then a passport card would be needed. I personally, would be fine with showing or getting my kids a passport/passport card when monetary awards are involved but, I realize that's just me. A passport card lasts 5 years for kids and is $40 so, much less than curl formers or 2 spray tans. Personally, I've seen parents jump through hoops to get their kids birth certificates with divorce, fires, over seas adoption, etc. so, I tend to believe they would do the same for a State ID or p.c., if required. I'm trying to look at this from my kids point of view, and whether they are the team being stripped of the title, jackets, bids or the team that was robbed of their moment, they are ultimately the ones paying the consequence. Definitely, hit the gym owner for the crime but, I'm still for prevention upfront first.

Hmm.. I actually do not know. Now that I think about it, I was 15 when we got my passport and ID together, so I didn't even realize that was a rule. I know when we traveled prior to that, my mom always had my birth certificate, notarized letter from my dad, and her ID. Of course, this was pre-9/11 so security was more lax. My cousins kids (2 and 4) just got their first passports in NJ so I think that may be the only option for the under-14 crowd in NJ.

We did not need ID for the PSAT, we took it altogether in school. For the SAT, I think it was school ID + birth certificate? Or license, but NJ also doesn't get their drivers license until 17 so it gets even trickier.

 

[catlady]

Hmm.. I actually do not know. Now that I think about it, I was 15 when we got my passport and ID together, so I didn't even realize that was a rule. I know when we traveled prior to that, my mom always had my birth certificate, notarized letter from my dad, and her ID. Of course, this was pre-9/11 so security was more lax. My cousins kids (2 and 4) just got their first passports in NJ so I think that may be the only option for the under-14 crowd in NJ.

We did not need ID for the PSAT, we took it altogether in school. For the SAT, I think it was school ID + birth certificate? Or license, but NJ also doesn't get their drivers license until 17 so it gets even trickier.

I'm sorry, I was wrong, cp told me they took PSAT together in school, as well. She said they took the SAT for the Duke Tip in 7th grade and that's why they needed their State ID's at age 12. DH decided the kids should get their passports now since the government said it has been 10 years since the "Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative" and there will be delays...I don't know where we are going other than cheer comps but, we will be prepared if that emergency trip to Europe or Africa ever comes up. But, I digress, there is a statement on the application if under 16 and only one parent appears you must submit one of the following: Second parents notarized written statement consenting or DS-3053, second parent's death certificate, or a written statement or DS-5525 explaining in detail the second parent's unavailability (made under the penalty of perjury).... I'm going to take a guess and say those last written statements have a high incidence of "my ex is a jerk and won't show up or write a statement" and "I have no idea where the other parent is". Honestly, I wonder if those are acceptable reasons or what a parent does in those cases?

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

I'm just verifying, the reason that people are talking about state issues IDS is because the gyms could alter or falsify the USASF picture badges they used to issue?

 

[mhgirlymom]

I'm just verifying, the reason that people are talking about state issues IDS is because the gyms could alter or falsify the USASF picture badges they used to issue?

But is usasft even issuing badges anymore and requiring gyms to provide pictures, especially current pics. Our first gym asked for and submitted a pic a few years ago, but the last gym we were at did not submit a pic.

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[SL&AM]

I'm just verifying, the reason that people are talking about state issues IDS is because the gyms could alter or falsify the USASF picture badges they used to issue?

I wanna say it was last season, half year gym said when you get your badge bring it in (since we registered our athletes) and then we found out they had stopped doing badges. I'm not sure if it was because of alterations or cost, but they don't even issue them anymore.