High School High School Tryouts

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Unfortunately, I have witnessed this personally with my oldest CP. Her sophomore year there was a girl that had been on the Freshman squad the year before and didn't make the JV squad (the only squad sophomores can make). She compared her scores with one of the cheerleaders who was a junior that hadn't made the Varsity squad but made the JV squad (the junior was on the JV squad the year before). Needless to say, the scores of the sophomore who didn't make it were higher than the scores of the junior who did. Since that "discrepancy", the coaches can be present during the tryouts, which are judged by an outside organization with no input from the coaches, but they have no involvement with tabulating of scores nor are they able to see the roster before it's official. Of notable fact, the head coach did not like the girl who originally didn't make the squad, but she loved the girl who "did". What makes it worse, the junior who hadn't actually made a high enough score to be on the JV squad, was able to remain and was given the position of Captain over my CP who made co-captain and who had been captain of the Freshman squad the year before. That girl had never been captain before.

There is entirely too much politics in high school cheer to allow the cheer coach to decide who should/should not be on the squad. The following year, when my CP was one of 5 juniors to make Varsity (with 15 seniors), there were approximately 10 girls who had been on a squad the previous year, that didn't make any squad. Their parents got together and hired an attorney to file a grievance stating that the "natural break" wasn't big enough. The natural break was 1.7, which was a bigger natural break than in previous years. Unfortunately, these girls were put on the Varsity squad due to a technicality, so there were 30 cheerleaders on Varsity (the most there has ever been previously was 22). The technicality was that the coach accidentally distributed a sheet of paper that had the scoring rubric and how the scores were calculated. Unfortunately, it was incorrect so when they used both calculations the next natural break made the squad grow to 30. High school cheer is an ugly business, especially here in Texas. And this is coming from a mom whose oldest cheered all 4 years and was Varsity captain and the youngest will be trying out for Varsity this year and was JV captain last year. It's not for the feint of heart. ;)

Yuck.

But here's the thing I don't get, no one cries politics/gets lawyers/tries to sue when the football coaches choose their own teams.

Why is that an acceptable practice in every other sport EXCEPT cheer?

 

[cheer25mom]

Yuck.

But here's the thing I don't get, no one cries politics/gets lawyers/tries to sue when the football coaches choose their own teams.

Why is that an acceptable practice in every other sport EXCEPT cheer?

Because cheer is so much more subjective, particularly when it is just sideline. In other sports, the scoreboard determines who wins or loses, not a panel of judges. A coach that continues to pick teams that don't win is replaced, not so with most school cheer programs.


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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Choosing the best team is not as subjective as one would think. Ex: A hit stunt is a hit stunt, and good quality jumps are good quality jumps.

I am also pretty excited that my panel this year is down to one outside judge and that we have decided to DO AWAY WITH TEACHER RECS, but everyone's opinion of that is different.

 

[cheermommaRN]

Cp had tryouts last night.
The way they did tryouts was different then previous years. In the past it's been an outside panel hired by the school and judged using the NCA rubric. This year cheer was declared a sport by UIL and so they revamped the process. The girls had 3 days of clinics and the last night they had 9th/10th grades come in. It was judged by the coaches and one outside coach (the one that does their NCA choreography). They did a dance (groups of 3) and then a cheer by themselves. This is where it got confusing for cp. There were no mats and no designated tumbling section but they were judged on tumbling? It wasn't stressed very much and when it came time to do her cheer she didn't even think to tumble. So there is a possibility she got a zero on that portion of the judging sheet. I don't know how natural breaks work so I don't know how badly it will effect her, there were 15 freshman and they said the team would be 20-30 kids. In my mind that means everyone makes it but like I said, natural break.
She felt she did awesome in all the other parts and was one of the only freshman to be able to do the jump sequence on count. Once she realized she forgot to tumble she was pretty upset but I think she will be fine.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

^^^^It's pretty simple. You look for the drop off in scores. However, it's anxiety-inducing for the candidates because well, you never know where everyone else falls.

If you can take 4 kids and the scores are like:

Suzy 99.9
Lizzie 98.9
Nicole 98.8
Becky 98.7
Tori 95.4
Tina 89.1

The break is after Becky. Tori and Tina are getting cut.

Of course, you could throw in other factors like, needing certain numbers of flyers/backs/bases but this is a super basic example.

 

[cheermommaRN]

^^^^It's pretty simple. You look for the drop off in scores. However, it's anxiety-inducing for the candidates because well, you never know where everyone else falls.

If you can take 4 kids and the scores are like:

Suzy 99.9
Lizzie 98.9
Nicole 98.8
Becky 98.7
Tori 95.4
Tina 89.1

The break is after Becky. Tori and Tina are getting cut.

Of course, you could throw in other factors like, needing certain numbers of flyers/backs/bases but this is a super basic example.

Do you think if they only 15 kids they would still do a natural break?

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I can't say what someone else would do, but I would.

People tend to think, "Well, they're taking 15 and only 10 tried out, so everyone will make it."

That could be, but if scores are like:

(Disclaimer: This is very much oversimplified.)

Nicole - 99
Becky - 99
Suzy - 98
Alisha - 98
Amber - 98
Beth - 97
Jenna - 90
Jocelyn - 80
Brianna - 74
Felicia - 60

There is a clear natural break after Beth. I could in theory keep everyone, but those last 4 are obviously not scoring where that top group is and I want the best team. I could also, in theory also take those bottom scoring 4 and make them alternates who don't compete unless necessary. That opens up the issue of whether you want to be in place to have to use a girl who scored 60 when you have injuries. But in a situation as described, I am not sure that I would just outright take everyone as part of the team.

There is also the issue of you SAYING you wanted x girls. There could be parental pushback because that is what you said, as well. I have never had a year with significantly fewer candidates than spots, though so these are all hypotheticals.

Best of luck to your girl!

 

[dawgshow]

Which leads me to the question, why don't we take the politics out of it and just let the coach decide? Does football or basketball ever have judges? nope. Do the coaches favor some individuals, sure. Do people get all up in arms, no cause that's the coaches job.

Umm, around here there are plenty of parents up in arms re: football, basketball, soccer, and lacrosse teams. I've absolutely seem tryouts with a panel of judges, including the coach.


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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Umm, around here there are plenty of parents up in arms re: football, basketball, soccer, and lacrosse teams. I've absolutely seem tryouts with a panel of judges, including the coach.


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Wow! I know that there are issues in other sports and parents complaining/suing but I have never seen a "ball sport" with a judging panel. Ever.

 

[dawgshow]

A couple of friends just experienced it with Lacrosse 2 weeks ago. It wasn't a panel like you see in cheer, with them sitting behind a table, but there were 5 people there with clip boards as the kids did drills in small groups and played a scrimmage.
Edit(hit enter too soon). Last fall I was watching something similar happen with soccer tryouts at a local middle school.

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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Like a combine of sorts? Would be reasonable if they were coaches but outside folks? Why?

 

[Twinklestars]

A few years ago, our middle school team was expanding. The coach set a minimum score that the girls had to make in order to not get cut. She was wanting 12 girls; she ended up with 11.

Last year, for high school, there were 18 girls trying out for 16 spots. The previous year had a tie and the team ended up with 17. They didn't want that to happen again.

I prefer having a minimum score or using a natural break. It makes for a better team.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I'm also not a fan of "take everyone so that you do not have to cut one or two girls."

Ex: When a school has 19 going for 18 spots and ends up with a team of 19 simply to avoid cutting one person.

 

[Twinklestars]

I'm also not a fan of "take everyone so that you do not have to cut one or two girls."

Ex: When a school has 19 going for 18 spots and ends up with a team of 19 simply to avoid cutting one person.

I think if our team had a natural break or a minimum score that they would have cut more than two!

 

[dawgshow]

Like a combine of sorts? Would be reasonable if they were coaches but outside folks? Why?

*shrug* Who knows why?