High School I Am Furious.

[callmecoach]

That score skill grid looks way more conclusive than the one we have in VA. Down here it is very grey - you can score in the max range by having a one legged extended stunt. That's it. Crazy, right?

But here is what I've noticed in my years of coaching HS cheer - judging is subjective to who you're competing against. Example - I competed my HS team at an invitational in late September and scored a 260 out of 300. We came in 2nd of 13 teams. The competition was tough and the scores were high. Fast forward to the next weekend I am against 3 other teams, not as much skill across the board and we score at 252. Fast forward to districts - 9 teams, top 4 advance. We come in 4th with a score of 227. Fast forward next week to regionals - top 4 make it and we score a 215. Reason I was given is that judging is subjective to who and what you're competing against. I call BS on that because to me - a routine is a routine and if nothing is changed in it - how can a judge trained on the same score sheet legit give you that much lower? Makes no sense...

This is annoying but true. The lower the overall skill level of teams at a competition, the lower my team scores, win or lose. They also tend to score lower if they go first or early in the lineup, even if they win. I guess points are being "saved" in case someone's better later on?

 

[CoachMandiCF]

This is annoying but true. The lower the overall skill level of teams at a competition, the lower my team scores, win or lose. They also tend to score lower if they go first or early in the lineup, even if they win. I guess points are being "saved" in case someone's better later on?

You're exactly right - judges "save" scores for the teams performing later. That's one thing I don't like about the way our system works. In a line up for a regional performance, the 4th place teams go first then 3rd and so on. So the judges of course are going to say well I can't score them really high, what will I give to the 1st place teams? It sucks, but what can you do unless they give up that type of order of performance.

 

[Ashley]

That score skill grid looks way more conclusive than the one we have in VA. Down here it is very grey - you can score in the max range by having a one legged extended stunt. That's it. Crazy, right?

But here is what I've noticed in my years of coaching HS cheer - judging is subjective to who you're competing against. Example - I competed my HS team at an invitational in late September and scored a 260 out of 300. We came in 2nd of 13 teams. The competition was tough and the scores were high. Fast forward to the next weekend I am against 3 other teams, not as much skill across the board and we score at 252. Fast forward to districts - 9 teams, top 4 advance. We come in 4th with a score of 227. Fast forward next week to regionals - top 4 make it and we score a 215. Reason I was given is that judging is subjective to who and what you're competing against. I call BS on that because to me - a routine is a routine and if nothing is changed in it - how can a judge trained on the same score sheet legit give you that much lower? Makes no sense...

The problem in MA though is that to make it to States (regionals too?) you have to score above a certain score. It's not just a number of teams.

 

[FamousxMindset]

That score skill grid looks way more conclusive than the one we have in VA. Down here it is very grey - you can score in the max range by having a one legged extended stunt. That's it. Crazy, right?

But here is what I've noticed in my years of coaching HS cheer - judging is subjective to who you're competing against. Example - I competed my HS team at an invitational in late September and scored a 260 out of 300. We came in 2nd of 13 teams. The competition was tough and the scores were high. Fast forward to the next weekend I am against 3 other teams, not as much skill across the board and we score at 252. Fast forward to districts - 9 teams, top 4 advance. We come in 4th with a score of 227. Fast forward next week to regionals - top 4 make it and we score a 215. Reason I was given is that judging is subjective to who and what you're competing against. I call BS on that because to me - a routine is a routine and if nothing is changed in it - how can a judge trained on the same score sheet legit give you that much lower? Makes no sense...

I'm in VA too. My team had the exact same problem. The scoring from districts to states is so inconsistent.

 

[EWalsh1029]

The problem in MA though is that to make it to States (regionals too?) you have to score above a certain score. It's not just a number of teams.

Yup to qualify for Regionals you need to score a 67 at your league competition (single line judge) and Regionals you need to score a 160 to move to states (80, dbl line judge). BUT what makes me furious with this system of regionals to states is that the top two automatically move on (no matter the score) and if third place scores a 140 they cane move on too?! Why have a qualifying score if D4 teams scoring low can move on to states but D1 D2 and D3 teams who score higher but not top 3 can't

 

[quitthedrama]

Yup to qualify for Regionals you need to score a 67 at your league competition (single line judge) and Regionals you need to score a 160 to move to states (80, dbl line judge). BUT what makes me furious with this system of regionals to states is that the top two automatically move on (no matter the score) and if third place scores a 140 they cane move on too?! Why have a qualifying score if D4 teams scoring low can move on to states but D1 D2 and D3 teams who score higher but not top 3 can't

As bad as that is (I agree with you to an extent, but in theory D1 teams should score higher than D4 teams based on the fact they have a much larger student population to create their team. I don't necessarily agree this theory holds true for cheering however) - consider this: MSSAA ranks divisions not only by school population, but also by population within region of the state. For example, Shepherd Hill is in D1 central, and has to compete D1 at states with about 1,000 enrollment against schools like Lowell with over 3,000 enrollment. Burlington has about the same enrollment as Shepherd Hill, but because they are in the Eastern region, which is more populated, they get to compete in D3. How is that remotely fair?! The way MSSAA does division rankings makes no sense whatsoever when you get to the state level.
As far as judging, as I said earlier - I will never understand it. There was a team that beat a team at leagues but then lost to the same team by over 20 points at Regionals. Nothing material changed in either team's performance between leagues and regionals, and regionals was exactly a week after leagues. I don't get it, I never will, and unfortunately I don't expect it to ever change.

 

[Oxx3rinxxO]

The judges compare teams way too much and score by that....we even had other teams coming up to us saying we should have moved on! It's ridiculous, these judges are trained to properly score, why are they doing their job poorly?

 

[Oxx3rinxxO]

Adding on to my anger.....

What should one do if they find out that pop Warner messes up scores very bad as to the point that it is completely wrong placing. Like the actual first place team gets announced like, 4th for example, and they knew the scores were wrong maybe not on that day, but finding out soon enough after that they could have told the team but decided not to. Not 100% sure this has happened, but there is a possibility because there were other scoring errors on that day.