All-Star I Want You To Tear Apart This Idea And Find Every Hole You Can Find

[King]

Does every EP have the capability to do this?

good question. how many competitions do not have video playback?

 

[King]

So who determines if your difficulty is accurate??

How is that determined now?

The nice thing about separating difficulty AND live/execution is that the live part can only really be judged once. Difficulty could be adjusted later on if needed.

 

[King]

I believe this would also increase the speed at which a team is scored. A live judge could see the most amazingly hard skill ever in front of them and the live judges have NO clue what it is, but they can make an assessment on how well it was executed and how creative it was and how well it was performed. Top Gun could invent the Triple Lindy on the floor and perform it well and they can be 'free' to just reward the execution of it.

Later on the difficulty judge can determine that the Triple Lindy is legal in level 2, was performed first in 2001, and really their grandma could do it and its not that difficult. (this is JUST an example)

 

[SparkleSpankies]

What if I turn in a list that says we have 18 kids competing doubles but over half of those don't get all the way around? (Something I noticed quite frequently this past weekend) Does that team get credit for doubles and you just take off of their execution score? Or does an incomplete double not count as a double at all??

That would mostlikely be the ideal situation in my opinion.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

I do like the idea of putting together a pre-determined list of the skills and the video playback or scribe/s to note what may be different. This could help.

Lets face it, notorious liars would eventually be caught but at the end of the day, this could help give a "If ALL of these skills are completed as you listed" your score is x in difficulty. Any discrepeacices would be noted (eg: 2 stunt groups in back left corner did not complete this skill fully, or only 4 standing fulls vs 6 etc) and then a certain point deduction would be given.

In any event, this wouldn't be as simple at more local level competitions... which still do exist, but anything that is regional should be able to accomodate this type of scoring.

 

[Mclovin]

As long as the difficulty judge could change their score based on what the team actually competed, I am all for it. As for how it works right now, it's up to the judge to decide how many skills they think a team threw. I hate that method, too. As long as video play back is a pivotal part of the judging system, I think it would work great!

 

[King]

As long as the difficulty judge could change their score based on what the team actually competed, I am all for it. As for how it works right now, it's up to the judge to decide how many skills they think a team threw. I hate that method, too. As long as video play back is a pivotal part of the judging system, I think it would work great!

A judge would use the script turned in as a guide to speed things up (listing skills and order). If a skill was misrepresented their accuracy score would go down AS WELL as their difficulty score (so a double dip).

 

[Michael McGahan]

so is this system somewhat like a gymnastics ?

 

[cheerinfo]

I'm just not sure what submitting the list prior does for the process. I have always told my kids that if for whatever reason (trip, bow on the floor, cramp, bad round off, whatever) you don't feel that you can do your double...then DON'T...i feel this is smart and a matter of safety and not something they should be punished for. Obviously...if you see a full instead of a double, that depletes your difficulty score. I don't see a reason to ALSO penalize that team for not throwing the same amount of doubles submitted. It would just decrease the difficulty score because it would be one less double.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I dont like the challenge rule. The EP would need to provide the verified form with the score sheets. So if they said 4 standing fulls, and the judge only counts 1, it would be marked next to it. If the coach challenges what true number and is wrong, there is a POINT DEDUCTION.

Judges need to start having accountability and the EPs need to believe in them and give them credit. Then the coaches shouldn't be given the opportunity to nit pick every little thing they want with nothing to actually take action upon.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I'm just not sure what submitting the list prior does for the process. I have always told my kids that if for whatever reason (trip, bow on the floor, cramp, bad round off, whatever) you don't feel that you can do your double...then DON'T...i feel this is smart and a matter of safety and not something they should be punished for. Obviously...if you see a full instead of a double, that depletes your difficulty score. I don't see a reason to ALSO penalize that team for not throwing the same amount of doubles submitted. It would just decrease the difficulty score because it would be one less double.

I agree. It is nice to provide it ahead of time so you know what is coming. But it is the judges job to count the skills.

 

[King]

3 judges who do live judging. There is no head judge needed AS all the live scores and creativity are subjective. The scores can be normalized through some smoothing to provide an accurate average (and one side could not be lopsided). I can get really geeky and explain this but the short version is if two judges are close to each other and one judge is way far from the range the far off range score is given less weight than the scores that are closer together. This means a judges opinion never has to be changed or regulated and the computer will just assign weights. So right there I feel like I have eliminated the need for more judges.

One difficulty judge. One legality judge. No more people hand timing music (really? that is absolutely crazy... put the CD in the machine and if it says 2:31 or more you get 5 points off... same with an MP3... white space isn't needed). So now we have eliminated the need fro as many judging staff AND increased the accuracy.

 

[King]

I dont like the challenge rule. The EP would need to provide the verified form with the score sheets. So if they said 4 standing fulls, and the judge only counts 1, it would be marked next to it. If the coach challenges what true number and is wrong, there is a POINT DEDUCTION.

Judges need to start having accountability and the EPs need to believe in them and give them credit. Then the coaches shouldn't be given the opportunity to nit pick every little thing they want with nothing to actually take action upon.

So a report back on all the skills done at the end that were counted?

 

[Mclovin]

I know in gymnastics each routine has a pre-determined difficulty score and then if the judges don't think the routine actually had the right elements in it to get that difficulty score they adjust the top range from 10.0 to whatever they believe the routine should be scored out of. Is this basically what you're wanting to do with cheer?

 

[SparkleSpankies]

I think if you say you have 12 doubles and only 9 go, and you are already at half + 1 or not even at half +1 it really shouldn't affect the difficulty all that much.. BUT if you say you have 12 and your last pass is the ONLY double... that is a big issue, especially w/ a video playback.

A coach should be able to get this w/in minutes of their performance to "dispute"...

Then again... seriously you want to even give a coach a chance to dispute, they will dispute everything... :-)