All-Star Inconsistent Judging

[King]

Remember, you cannot analyse what you do not measure. If we don't measure the judges on their abilities it is unfair to decide how good a job they have done.

And again, no calculations should ever be done by hand.

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[BlueCat]

Remember, you cannot analyse what you do not measure. If we don't measure the judges on their abilities it is unfair to decide how good a job they have done.

And again, no calculations should ever be done by hand.

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To take your point further, you can't measure what you arent even allowed to see. The only ones currently even in a position to evaluate the judges are the event producers (or perhaps the head judges).

We need to continue putting pressure on event producers to show all of the scores and let teams know why they win or lose.

 

[yojaehs]

To take your point further, you can't measure what you arent even allowed to see. The only ones currently even in a position to evaluate the judges are the event producers (or perhaps the head judges).

We need to continue putting pressure on event producers to show all of the scores and let teams know why they win or lose.

I agree with you x1,000, my question is, what have EP's said is the reason they WON'T release the score sheets? I just don't understand the negatives? Also, what is the reason that a required certification has not been established for judges?

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I agree with you x1,000, my question is, what have EP's said is the reason they WON'T release the score sheets? I just don't understand the negatives? Also, what is the reason that a required certification has not been established for judges?

Just an FYI. I emailed several companies because I want to get into judging on a bigger scale than I currently am. (I think I emailed 6 or 7 companies about judging). Not a single company said they had any sort of Judges training program. They all just recommended the USASF safety training course.

 

[yojaehs]

Just an FYI. I emailed several companies because I want to get into judging on a bigger scale than I currently am. (I think I emailed 6 or 7 companies about judging). Not a single company said they had any sort of Judges training program. They all just recommended the USASF safety training course.

Isn't USASF safety course just for qualification as a "safety" judge? Well I guess something is better than nothing.

 

[cheerinfo]

Yes, the Safety Certification Course is just for legality judges. The problem with this is that not ALL EPs allow safety judges to do their jobs effectively. And the Safety Certification has NOTHING to do with panel judging or head judging. That varies from company to company. A step I would like to see as far as Safety Judges is that they are employed by the USASF, NOT the individual EPs, therefore, the EPs cannot decide what to call and what not to, etc. I cannot stand when deductions/penalties are "erased" just "because". But at least the Safety Cert attempts to get all safety judges on the same page with clarifications on legalities, etc. It will never be PERFECT, but it certainly helps. Les does a great job with those seminars each year.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

Isn't USASF safety course just for qualification as a "safety" judge? Well I guess something is better than nothing.

Exactly. The USASF can't train judges how to judge on a specific company's score sheet. And having a 30 minute talk before a competition isn't sufficient

 

[yojaehs]

Exactly. The USASF can't train judges how to judge on a specific company's score sheet. And having a 30 minute talk before a competition isn't sufficient

I agree 100%. I guess what I am wondering is WHY don't EP's WANT better trained judges and WHY wouldn't an EP want to release score sheets? I'm just looking to see what the negatives are from an EP's point of view.

 

[King]

Lots of EPs think their scoresheet is a business advantage to them to be differeny. Its not.

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[Katybugmom]

I think the idea of inputting scores directly into a computer would be great. IPADS are not that expensive. Make a program that doesn't allow out of range scores and that tabulates, avg scores and makes a list for awards .
Score sheets could be automatically inputted and sent to the coaches, no copying, easy to track, no paper waste. Woohoo
EPs could then pull up judges averages and compare to see if some are being too lenient or too harsh. It would just be a couple of clicks on a computer program, then if there are questions they could review the performance and talk to the judge about what they expect- feedback is crucial if you want them to change. Right now the judges don't know if they are consistent with the rest of the panel.
I also like the idea of judges watching a tv feed from other room that they could rewind. Sometimes they are impacted by crowds reaction.

 

[Funfunfun]

I believe what they mean by reviewing the judges score and evaluating them is not to be done right there at the competition. But later with a video tape just to see if there were any major judging mistakes and base their judging skills and grade them. I would say that would work and the most consistent judges would be asked to come back.

The above comment is exactly what I mean. Make the judges accountable for what is written on the score sheet. I belive there should be a universal score sheet. However, I also believe judges should be held accountable to know and understand the scores sheet they are using to judge a particular event. It sounds like a cop out to say that a judge doesn't know one score sheet from another. If that's the case, don't judge for so many different event producers. I also really like the idea of the judges being in a differnt room and being able to pause and rewind routines. This could lead to more attention to detail - Great concept!

 

[MissBee]

I also like the idea of judges watching a tv feed from other room that they could rewind. Sometimes they are impacted by crowds reaction.

And, you start the day out at 9am (not including how early you had to get up, on your day off, to drive to the venue) and end around 9pm. The music is blaring from 8:30am and doesn't let up AT ALL. The first teams are the Tiny and Mini teams. You don't get to the higher levels till the end of the day, when you're fatigued!!! You have a pounding headache from the loud music and flashing lights, your lunch was some greasy chicken fingers that you gobbled down between routines, you're tired and want to go home....but, you have to decide which team is getting the full paid bid!
If you were in a quiet room (away from the lights, blaring music and crowds) you might be less fatigued and that could mean more accurate judging.

 

[Funfunfun]

Does any competition company have the judges in a different room? I think it's wrong to ask a judge to sit there all day, judging from Tiny level 1 to Senior 5. I'm guessing they don't have seperate judging panels due to the cost but this seems unreasonable for some of the larger comps. Do judges make good money?

 

[stuntaholic]

I almost don't want the judges being able to rewind. I think they should have to judge from first impression not watch it 8 times. The time rewinding should be allowed is for deductions in my opinion.

 

[MissBee]

Does any competition company have the judges in a different room? I think it's wrong to ask a judge to sit there all day, judging from Tiny level 1 to Senior 5. I'm guessing they don't have seperate judging panels due to the cost but this seems unreasonable for some of the larger comps. Do judges make good money?

HA HA HA.....good money? No one judges for the money! Typically it's from $100-$200 per day.
Most of the big events will have 2 panels per floor (so you judge team 1, the other panel judges team 2, then you judge team 3...etc)