All-Star International Coed 5/all-girl 5 Thoughts

[King]

You continue to insinuate that college kids are all getting free rides at most gyms. That may be true in your area, but it is not the case here. I don't believe it to be the case for the majority of the strong International 5 teams either. Your point of view is different than my point of view.

So what do you think about having open 4, 5, 6 all be 18+? then all the normal divisions be 18-?

 

[BlueCat]

As I said before, I don't think that many gyms have enough 18+ athletes to form whole teams out of them. That would mean that many gyms simply couldn't retain those customers. Stingrays and CA could make it work, but I don't know that the majority of gyms could begin to field teams in those divisions yet, given those limitations.

I would be OK with raising the floor for International teams to 16. That would limit teams more, but I think it would still be realistic for many gyms to field those teams.

Also, I consider the "international" divisions to be "normal" divisions. (OK, normal divisions with bad names. "Open" is little less awful, but not by much.)

 

[King]

As I said before, I don't think that many gyms have enough 18+ athletes to form whole teams out of them. That would mean that many gyms simply couldn't retain those customers. Stingrays and CA could make it work, but I don't know that the majority of gyms could begin to field teams in those divisions yet, given those limitations.

I would be OK with raising the floor for International teams to 16. That would limit teams more, but I think it would still be realistic for many gyms to field those teams.

Also, I consider the "international" divisions to be "normal" divisions. (OK, normal divisions with bad names. "Open" is little less awful, but not by much.)

I guess I just have a huge problem with 16 year old flyers being on teams with 30 year old men. It bugs me and I don't think it is right. A 16 year old is a minor. A 18 year old legally can make as many decisions as they want, good or bad.

With the new stunting requirements for I5 you are going to see a lot more older experienced male stunters on teams with 14 year olds, because... well... thats where the talent is. The older a male gets the better a stunter they are. The younger and smaller a female is the easier it is to throw them around. Tumbling isn't worth anything anymore either.

 

[Ashley]

I guess I just have a huge problem with 16 year old flyers being on teams with 30 year old men. It bugs me and I don't think it is right. A 16 year old is a minor. A 18 year old legally can make as many decisions as they want, good or bad.

With the new stunting requirements for I5 you are going to see a lot more older experienced male stunters on teams with 14 year olds, because... well... thats where the talent is. The older a male gets the better a stunter they are. The younger and smaller a female is the easier it is to throw them around. Tumbling isn't worth anything anymore either.

Open level 6 is 17+. Do you have a problem with that? I think the issue with that is mainly traveling competitions. I think the minors on open teams need to travel with their families and should not be involved in the partying that open teams do on cheer trips.

 

[King]

Open level 6 is 17+. Do you have a problem with that? I think the issue with that is mainly traveling competitions. I think the minors on open teams need to travel with their families and should not be involved in the partying that open teams do on cheer trips.

I do. I think you are either a club level kid or an open level kid.

Putting a minor on a team as an equal with an adult is just asking for trouble.

 

[King]

open level adult*

hah

 

[BlueCat]

I do see where you are coming from. I don't have a perfect solution. However, my experience is that a 16-20 year-old male is typically more likely to do or say something stupid (or dangerous) than a 30 year-old one.

 

[King]

I do see where you are coming from. I don't have a perfect solution. However, my experience is that a 16-20 year-old male is typically more likely to do or say something stupid (or dangerous) than a 30 year-old one.

Boys never grow up. They just have more money to buy more expensive toys. haha

 

[socratesofcheer]

I'm still not understanding WHY more US teams "have" to be allowed into finals.

If you look at the 2008 Olympic Women's 100 meter dash results, all three medalists are from Jamaica. I would argue that the 4th best female sprinter from Jamaica is better than the best sprinter from almost every other country in the world. Yet, she got to stay home and watch from TV.

I still support my case for the US trials at some point before worlds to select the top 3 teams to go to Orlando.

 

[King]

I'm still not understanding WHY more US teams "have" to be allowed into finals.

If you look at the 2008 Olympic Women's 100 meter dash results, all three medalists are from Jamaica. I would argue that the 4th best female sprinter from Jamaica is better than the best sprinter from almost every other country in the world. Yet, she got to stay home and watch from TV.

I still support my case for the US trials at some point before worlds to select the top 3 teams to go to Orlando.

My biggest problem with 3 teams going to finals was the cost to do the whole journey just to only compete once. (Disney is not cheap... especially for what we get out of it. An over crowded competition arena and an overflow to the deadest competition arena around). US trials could be done somewhere more cost affective, have a 15 85 split like NCa and take up a weekend and I am ALL for that. People would feel less cheated and it would raise the prestige of being at Worlds.

 

[BlueCat]

I'm still not understanding WHY more US teams "have" to be allowed into finals.

If you look at the 2008 Olympic Women's 100 meter dash results, all three medalists are from Jamaica. I would argue that the 4th best female sprinter from Jamaica is better than the best sprinter from almost every other country in the world. Yet, she got to stay home and watch from TV.

I still support my case for the US trials at some point before worlds to select the top 3 teams to go to Orlando.

The Olympics model is country vs country. That works great for it and for the ICU competition held right before Worlds. Individuals are representing their countries, so countries can play a factor in who gets to attend.

At actual Worlds, individuals are representing their gyms, not their country in any way. The competition is club vs. club. Clubs are limited to 1 team per division, so you have the same type limitation that the Olympics or ICU has, it just correctly orients towards the programs.

 

[ACE Tribe]

I like the fact that for ICU you have one team to represent your Country. For Team Scotland any cheerleader from Scotland was allowed to audition and you had to go through two auditions before you got picked for the Team!! We are competing in all girl elite (level 5) and all range from 14-24. Im 19 and pretty much the 3rd oldest and i also fly having 14/15 year olds putting me up! I think it would be great if Worlds had the same as well or the Top 3 teams from your country to compete!! It would be great if they both had the same score sheets as you do pretty much need two different routines to compete in both but if we want to be part of the olympics then we need to take a step away and go ICU way i think!! Happy Cheering and Merry Xmas and hope you all have a safe and happy new year!! :)

 

[socratesofcheer]

The Olympics model is country vs country. That works great for it and for the ICU competition held right before Worlds. Individuals are representing their countries, so countries can play a factor in who gets to attend.

At actual Worlds, individuals are representing their gyms, not their country in any way. The competition is club vs. club. Clubs are limited to 1 team per division, so you have the same type limitation that the Olympics or ICU has, it just correctly orients towards the programs.

I agree, with the exception that in the international divisions it's about countries. If it was only about the programs then there wouldn't be the discussion of a certain number of teams per country.

To me the USASF is trying to have an "olympic" as well as the normal team structure that we are all used to. These formats don't really jive with one another.

 

[BlueCat]

I agree, with the exception that in the international divisions it's about countries. If it was only about the programs then there wouldn't be the discussion of a certain number of teams per country

Where does it state that "international" is supposed to be about countries instead of the clubs? That is certainly not how the US teams feel. It is Top Gun vs. Spirit vs CA vs . . . - not "3 US teams trying to win honor for their country." When someone asks "Who won International Coed 5 in 2009?", they aren't wanting you to say "the United States," they want to know the name of the program.

 

[tgfam]

I am actually the opposite and get upset when an International team deserves the paid bid and doesn't get it. In my opinion that a paid bid at BUTBT should have gone to TGi5 (different issue won't argue about it) so I felt like that international team got jipped because they were just as good if not better then the teams that walked away with the paid bids.

Just to make a quick comment on this... score wise TGi5 should have taken the full paid bid home. They had the 2nd highest score at the competition. I guess they gave it to the GA Semi team (who's score was 3rd highest) because they didn't want to give both bids to the same gym, as TG Semi had the highest score and i5 had the 2nd highest score. I personally think that's not right... it should have gone to the two highest scoring teams, regardless of whether or not they were from the same gym.