All-Star International Unfairness

[Mom Jeans]

Wouldn't be the first time, Bangkok got some special rules last year...

I know right? they were so apologetic when it happened, I guess they still want us to get scre*d they dont want to have to apologize

 

[ztaprincess]

I know right? they were so apologetic when it happened, I guess they still want us to get scre*d they dont want to have to apologize

If they want to give them such an advantage then why not remove US teams from that division and give them their own? Ugh the way the international divisions are handled just frustrates me so much.

 

[watchamacallit]

That was where I was curious. A smoother transition allows for international teams to know it's coming and prepare themselves for the change as well. Because if you remember- in the initial ruling it didn't specify if this was JUST for international teams. Although this will hit them MUCH more than it will hurt us..

I totally agree with this post. I am from Canada and going from the bottom limit of 14 years old to 17 was a pretty big jump. I don't want to speak for other gyms in Canada but from where I live, we have a very limited pool of all star cheerleaders and the rule from this year that allowed 14 years old to compete on International level 5 team (in my opinion) helped those senior age kids with their stunting and tumbling in the sense that they are able to compete those level 5 skills that they might not be able to compete with their senior team because the senior team might be a level 4/4.2 team (due to not having enough level 5 senior athletes). I am totally agreeing with the smooth transition for reasons that it's unfair for the senior aged kids who have level 5 skills already that were hoping to be in an International team next year and allowing gyms to develop more level 5 athletes so they can still keep up with the US teams.

 

[Mom Jeans]

If they want to give them such an advantage then why not remove US teams from that division and give them their own? Ugh the way the international divisions are handled just frustrates me so much.

because they want to compete against us, they just don't want us winning LOL

Imagine Olympic Basket Ball "okay U.S. you will have to play with one hand tied behind your back, because you always win" and no jumping you're already tall enough.

 

[viralscorp]

I totally agree with watchamacallit. I think there are a number of athletes to whom this rule is unfair. More importantly, IMHO, implementing this rule, next season, will kill international cheerleading.

And the implications of aligning the ICU with the new USASF rules? Either they will go to Senior (12-18) or Open (17+)... also significantly impacting ICU cheerleading. Come on! International cheerleading has enough trouble fielding teams with a large age range.

One of the major issues with recognizing cheerleading as a sport internationally is that other countries can't field teams at the same level as the US. This rule pushes us backwards in our goal to legitimize the sport. Not forwards.

 

[ztaprincess]

because they want to compete against us, they just don't want us winning LOL

Imagine Olympic Basket Ball "okay U.S. you will have to play with one hand tied behind your back, because you always win" and no jumping you're already tall enough.

Still not fair enough, they must only have 3 guys on the court and no one over 6'

 

[watchamacallit]

because they want to compete against us, they just don't want us winning LOL

Imagine Olympic Basket Ball "okay U.S. you will have to play with one hand tied behind your back, because you always win" and no jumping you're already tall enough.

I don't agree with the "they just don't want us winning" part of your post. Check how many times an International team has won the IOC/IO 5 division. Sure we'd like to place in the top 3 of the international division but I've never heard of anyone on an international team complain or wish that US teams wouldn't compete in their division so they 'd have more chance winning a world championship ring. Ask any International team and they would tell you that you can't really call it a competition in the International division unless you're competing with a US team. Personally, I would rather get 5th in the world behind a US team rather than being a world champion without having to compete against the likes of SOT, CA Wildcats or Top Gun.

 

[viralscorp]

Also... uh, which International teams came up with this rule?? Please redirect your frustration to the USASF.

ETA: I understand that comment was made in jest. Please take mine about redirection the same way.

 

[leighhhhhhhh]

Coming from the UK my opinion is this:

While I agree there should be the same rules for everyone, no-one can find a set of rules which truly fits everyone nicely in the international divisions. Make allowances for international teams and US teams say its unfair on them. Make allowances for US teams and international teams say the same. Its very hard when the US is decades in front of the rest of the world.

Like a previous post said, most teams go to watch & compete against US teams. Everyone knows the standard the US bring every year, and know its pretty much a given they'll be top 2/3 at least simply down to choreography and experience understanding the scoresheet, nevermind the collection of skills involved. They still travel and compete don't they?

The age rule fits the US very well, when most cheerleaders start at a young age, enjoy the senior under 18 divisions and then continue into international. Its a good progression. It does not work like this in the UK. Most tumblers (myself included) have gymnastics or freerunning/parkour background. You will regularly find a level 5/6 team with people that can't do a backhandspring and that is just how it is. We have to work with what talent we got be them 14 or 34.

Putting it into perspective: the top coed 6 team in the UK (Unity Allstars) is one of two teams with only 17+ years olds (simply due to age restrictions already in place). Both teams are nationwide teams, where people will travel and train for an entire weekend together once a month. This already limits the competition of level 6 in the UK. There are ZERO teams that train on a weekly basis that would come close to the new age grid. And when there are max of 4 teams in the coed 5 division at any competition right now (and this has doubled in the past year let me tell you), how is that going to improve the standard? Once this rule is implicated, expect a significant decrease in international teams attending.

ALSO, international cheer is very non-profit. They are not looked at as businesses. 18 year olds in the UK are focusing on exam results for university or starting their career. There are no cheer-scholarships here, so cheer will always be an extra-circular hobby, no matter at what level you compete at.

 

[Tamzin]

I think that each country should abide by the same age grids to make it 'fair' for everyone. How ever most countries are years behind the US in terms of skill etc. So would be a detriment to most teams not from the US who don't have enough athletes with true level 2 etc. skills in the same age grid. Also, if the other countries followed the age grid more then I would hope for open/international lower level divisions to be started as many people competing as senior but not the true age grid senior age don't have the skills to be open 5 or international 5/6. I'm 18 and the best tumbling I have is a cartwheel so if the age grid was more enforced here in the UK I wouldn't be able to compete next year as there is no way I'd be any use on an international 5/6 team. It's harder to create teams of true age grid ages because over here up until the past few years many people don't start cheer or gymnastics which helps from a young age to be able to get skills needed to compete in the present division when they age out of the senior division. Just my opinion on the matter and I hope it makes sense as I'm not sure if I've explained what I want to say very clearly/ in the best way :)

ETA: some people do start gym from a young age over here but many people from the experience of my team never did gymnastics or started when they were a lot older by which point it can be harder to learn the skills.

 

[scottish_cheerleader]

i agree with @leighhhhhhhh.

i come from scotland, in my cheer team we have 27 competitive kids... thats it! we have senior all girl 5 and junior 3.
our senior 5 has 1 girl turning 14, the majority are aging into our uk senior age group (ie turning 16) this year. then there are our already seniors... myself 22, one 19 year olds and 3 17 year olds.
we havent got much choice with regards to team placements, the kids who are mature and ready enough(skill wise) for s5 are on it. all of junior age that wanted to cheer on my junior3 team are on it.

if the 17+ rule applied to us, we would have no place for our "open aged seniors" to cheer.... so my three 17 year olds who have worked so hard for their fulls no longer compete? the implications to our smaller developing cheer countries would be devastating!!

i understand why its not such a huge deal for the US, but for us... it would cause the majority of teams in the uk to loose their senior cheerleaders as they have no where to cheer. and the reality is people like myself, Leigh, the kids on the national teams or long established programmes have been the ones that have watched our cheer community grow, championed for everyone to make level appropriate teams, pushed our levels of tumbling ... and all for what? to be left with no team to cheer on?

 

[quitthedrama]

I don't agree with it either. Though my guess is that they will be allowed to compete with athletes 14-16 for next worlds only because bids have already been handed out to them, but that for the following worlds they will also be made to follow the rules.

I'm not surprised at it though, it seems the USASF wants to do whatever it can to help out the rest of the world so that they don't leave the USASF and compete for the other big "worlds" like competition overseas.

I still think I am in the minority of liking the new 17+ for the international 5 divisions.

I am completey against raising the age - particularly so drastically in one year. My daughter was on an IOC5 team and will have to wait another two years for the opportunity if this rule sticks. Many gyms can only field one senior 5 team (if that) and the IOC team gives the older flyers the opportunity to compete. We also have some boys who don't have the tumbling for the senior 5 team but have very strong basing skills that wouldn't have the "level 5" opportunity if the age increased. As far as 14 year olds being on the same team with 26 year olds - my daughter goes to the supervised practice and leaves. She doesn't hang out with the team outside of practice, so there is no room for inappopriate behavior. She hears more in the high school hallways than she does at an IOC practice.
Even putting my personal issue aside, it is asinine to make different rules for different countries for the same division. The USASF needs to take a course in racial and sexual discrimination.....

 

[redsmom]

AMEN! And THAT is my issue with this, also, if 17 is the goal why not work your way up to it ex. next yr 15, then 16 THEN 17?

I like this solution, gives gyms time to adjust and allows current athletes to be grandfathered in.

 

[redsmom]

i agree with @leighhhhhhhh.

i come from scotland, in my cheer team we have 27 competitive kids... thats it! we have senior all girl 5 and junior 3.
our senior 5 has 1 girl turning 14, the majority are aging into our uk senior age group (ie turning 16) this year. then there are our already seniors... myself 22, one 19 year olds and 3 17 year olds.
we havent got much choice with regards to team placements, the kids who are mature and ready enough(skill wise) for s5 are on it. all of junior age that wanted to cheer on my junior3 team are on it.

if the 17+ rule applied to us, we would have no place for our "open aged seniors" to cheer.... so my three 17 year olds who have worked so hard for their fulls no longer compete? the implications to our smaller developing cheer countries would be devastating!!

i understand why its not such a huge deal for the US, but for us... it would cause the majority of teams in the uk to loose their senior cheerleaders as they have no where to cheer. and the reality is people like myself, Leigh, the kids on the national teams or long established programmes have been the ones that have watched our cheer community grow, championed for everyone to make level appropriate teams, pushed our levels of tumbling ... and all for what? to be left with no team to cheer on?

The issue of having no team for the 19+ athletes is common to the large majority of teams in the US as well. Very few gyms in the US have teams for this age group. The mega gyms are the exception.

 

[Aussiekat]

While I agree that 14 year olds and those in their mid-20s are not the best mix, I would like some people who are vehemently against it to come spend a season with us and really try to understand the dynamics of cheerleading internationally. It's very easy to say that we will catch up, adapt, fix, etc but in reality it's not quite as simple to do without crushing a fledgling sport. Allstar may be a new sport in the US, but you have a rich history of cheerleading in general. No other country has that ingrained in their cultures. At our biggest nationals last year, we had three IOC5 teams and two IAG5 teams from three different states. At senior 4, there were two teams from two different states. No junior 4. There are simply not enough people in the sport in the same part of the country to be able to field legitimate club teams in the relevant age divisions to compete at Worlds. You have rules that cater to small gyms to help them grow, we have nothing BUT small gyms and one division at worlds for our athletes to aim for and to help us grow.

We are under no delusions that we can hang with the top US teams, but it doesn't mean we're complacent with where we are because we have an international division that caters a little more to our strengths. It certainly doesn't mean we aren't setting our sights high and aiming for the top. We have athletes spending seasons at top US programmes (paying out of their own pockets) just so they can bring back that knowledge and share it with the community back home. Same goes for worlds. I have seen so many cheerleaders come back with bright eyes and fire in their bellies, renewed passion to work harder for themselves and to raise the standard of the sport as a whole. To have a coach that has competed at worlds is like the most amazing thing for kids over here. They don't ask whether you medaled, they want to know if Top Gun was just as amazing in real life, if Rays jumps looked as perfect as the pictures, how the crowd reacted to the ball up 360. Even in their little hearts, they don't dream of rings and globes. They dream to make one of the top teams in our country just so they can GO to worlds, and step on the same floor as TG, CEA, CA, Rays, Cali, SOT etc. You want us to get better? You want us to hang in your divisions? Then give us a chance to develop our athletes, fuel their passion and help the next generation fall in love with allstar cheer so that they can compete in your senior club divisions.