All-Star International Unfairness

[PCMBelieve:)]

But most international teams don't have several teams to choose from as to where athletes are placed.

Exactly. That's why the age should not be 17+ it should be lower to help accommodate those programs who can't have a competive international team.

 

[Mom Jeans]

I realize this was a very broad generalization. On the whole, the US as a country has an easier time fielding IO teams in the new age bracket.

What makes you say that? All Im hearing about is teams folding because of this. And even if it was true, why have a different rule of the U.S.? I have never heard of such a thing in any other sport.

 

[yojaehs]

Exactly. That's why the age should not be 17+ it should be lower to help accommodate those programs who can't have a competive international team.

I agree

 

[PCMBelieve:)]

It's totally unfair for teams outside the US to have different rules and ages. If teams from Australia, Japan, Canada etc... want to be apart of our sport they need to become as advanced as we are, we can't say "oh you don't have enough tumbling? It's okay you still make finals" They're so many us teams in the international division who work hard all year with the correct age range and difficulty that you should have in this division who go to worlds spend all that money getting there only to be told sorry only 3 us teams can make it.. But the team from London who only has tucks and maybe 1 full will make finals... Ridiculous. International Divison Finals at Worlds should be the TOP 10 from all countries per division not 3 per country. Make it fair to those who actually deserve to make finals. It will also make the international Divison more exciting to watch. instead of already knowing who's going to win due to lack of competition.

BTW my examples were not of a specific team (aka London) I was just using a country for an example :)

 

[kristenthegreat]

Alright, let's put it this way:
International teams- If you could only tweak one rule this year so that the apparent bias isn't in your favor (or as much in your favor), which would you choose and why? Assuming that International 5 stays at 14 and up...
Personally, I say scale back the tumbling bias a little bit. Or change it to 5 per country. Most countries don't have 5 teams over here anyway (minus the US, maybe Canada), so it's not like it would add a whole bunch of teams to finals anyway!

 

[kristenthegreat]

It's totally unfair for teams outside the US to have different rules and ages. If teams from Australia, Japan, Canada etc... want to be apart of our sport they need to become as advanced as we are, we can't say "oh you don't have enough tumbling? It's okay you still make finals" They're so many us teams in the international division who work hard all year with the correct age range and difficulty that you should have in this division who go to worlds spend all that money getting there only to be told sorry only 3 us teams can make it.. But the team from London who only has tucks and maybe 1 full will make finals... Ridiculous. International Divison Finals at Worlds should be the TOP 10 from all countries per division not 3 per country. Make it fair to those who actually deserve to make finals. It will also make the international Divison more exciting to watch. instead of already knowing who's going to win due to lack of competition.

I'm sorry, but something about this post is so stereotypically American it hurts me..and I'm American.

 

[redsmom]

Ok, I have a question...so the way I read the current international age rule...that you must be 14 by the calendar year of the comp, including Worlds So you can be on the team and be 12 until December, turn 13 this past December, and if you compete at Worlds this year, as long as you turn 14 in December 2012, you are all good this year??

NEW: Competitor’s Age - “Year of the Competition” - ALL
International Open Divisions (Levels 5 & 6) will follow the ICU
World Cheerleading Championships age requirement (known as
the “International Standard”) for determining the required age of a
competitor. This standard is followed in most sports around the
globe. The age of a competitor will be determined based on the
date of birth falling during the “year of the competition.” Example:
A competitor who turns 14 up until December 31, 2012 will be
eligible to compete at the 2012 Worlds in an International Open
Level 5 Division

I think your interpretation is correct. But in the US the IO teams must follow USASF age guidelines at the bid event. So I think your scenario could only happen with teams from other countries.

I was curious so I took a peak at the UK cheer age groups and they don't have a minimum age for their senior age team http://ukca.org.uk/resources/pdfs/ukca-rules-2012-pdf.pdf

Tiny Teenies All competitors must be 7 years or under on the day of the competition
Teenies All competitors must be 9 years or under on the day of the competition
Junior A All competitors must be 12 years or under on the day of the competition
Junior B All competitors must be 16 years or under on the day of the competition
Senior One or more members of the team must be at least 16 years on the day of
the competition
University All competitors must be at least 18 year & older on the day of the competition
AND 75% of the team must be attending further education at the university they
are representing
Masters 75% of the team must be at least 25 years on the day of the competition

So If they want their senior team to go to Worlds they need to make sure that all of the athletes will be 14 by the calendar year of worlds.

 

[annauk]

.

 

[kristenthegreat]

University All competitors must be at least 18 year & older on the day of the competition
AND 75% of the team must be attending further education at the university they
are representing
Masters 75% of the team must be at least 25 years on the day of the competition.

THOSE are some interesting divisions! And some interesting requirements too!

 

[XtremeWpg]

What makes you say that? All Im hearing about is teams folding because of this. And even if it was true, why have a different rule of the U.S.? I have never heard of such a thing in any other sport.

It's totally unfair for teams outside the US to have different rules and ages. If teams from Australia, Japan, Canada etc... want to be apart of our sport they need to become as advanced as we are, we can't say "oh you don't have enough tumbling? It's okay you still make finals" They're so many us teams in the international division who work hard all year with the correct age range and difficulty that you should have in this division who go to worlds spend all that money getting there only to be told sorry only 3 us teams can make it.. But the team from London who only has tucks and maybe 1 full will make finals... Ridiculous. International Divison Finals at Worlds should be the TOP 10 from all countries per division not 3 per country. Make it fair to those who actually deserve to make finals. It will also make the international Divison more exciting to watch. instead of already knowing who's going to win due to lack of competition.

BTW my examples were not of a specific team (aka London) I was just using a country for an example :)

Wow. Just wow.

So I should put janky tumbling out because the american teams do those skills? So I should risk injury and deductions because well...the american teams can do it, so we should give it the ol' college try? Sorry. Not on mine or my mothers life will I do that.

This is exactly why the USASF says they're limiting the tumbling. Because coaches are pushing skills that athletes aren't ready for...but us international teams...screw it. You guys can keep getting hurt because you force skills beyond an athletes readiness.

I absolutely disagree with the age grid changes. For US, international and martian teams. But do NOT tell me that I should force my athletes to "become as advanced" as the US is. Thats all sorts of insulting.

 

[XtremeWpg]

I'm sorry, but something about this post is so stereotypically American it hurts me..and I'm American.

Thank you. Its a touch arrogant to think that the rest of the world needs to be just like...well any one who says that the rest of the world should be like them.

 

[scottish_cheerleader]

Alright, let's put it this way:
International teams- If you could only tweak one rule this year so that the apparent bias isn't in your favor (or as much in your favor), which would you choose and why? Assuming that International 5 stays at 14 and up...
Personally, I say scale back the tumbling bias a little bit. Or change it to 5 per country. Most countries don't have 5 teams over here anyway (minus the US, maybe Canada), so it's not like it would add a whole bunch of teams to finals anyway!

i would happily compete on the same score sheet as american divisions.... its the ages that bomb us out of even attending worlds. one of the reasons i went out to worlds (@bowcat im so singing from the same sheet as you) was to experience first hand the competitive divisions. i had no thoughts that we had a chance of medalling, as we quite frankly wouldnt deserve to! BUT its a learning experience for us, we put our skills out on a floor to be judged at the same standard as teams world wide! we will never learn, progress or reach the level in the us if we dont put our selves out their and put our developing teams on the worlds floor...

so yeh the age divisions is my only problem, i know we dont have the tumbling but i would rather take my 3 or 4 fulls to worlds and be judged on the normal score sheet than my kids never get the chance to experience the feeling of walking on to a worlds floor to compete!

 

[Mom Jeans]

Wow. Just wow.

So I should put janky tumbling out because the american teams do those skills? So I should risk injury and deductions because well...the american teams can do it, so we should give it the ol' college try? Sorry. Not on mine or my mothers life will I do that.

This is exactly why the USASF says they're limiting the tumbling. Because coaches are pushing skills that athletes aren't ready for...but us international teams...screw it. You guys can keep getting hurt because you force skills beyond an athletes readiness.

I absolutely disagree with the age grid changes. For US, international and martian teams. But do NOT tell me that I should force my athletes to "become as advanced" as the US is. Thats all sorts of insulting.

Why are you quoting me and why are you so upset that I asked you why you think its easier to for the U.S. to field a team with the new rules and that all Ive heard about is teams folding? I never said you should force your team to be like the U.S. Its okay for you to think we have janky skills, I would never say that about you or anyone else.

 

[XtremeWpg]

Why are you quoting me and why are you so upset that I asked you why you think its easier to for the U.S. to field a team with the new rules and that all Ive heard about is teams folding? I never said you should force your team to be like the U.S. Its okay for you to think we have janky skills, I would never say that about you or anyone else.

I didn't mean to quote you! I have no idea how that happened!

 

[ztaprincess]

The thing is there have been so many changed to the Internationl divisions that favor other countries and in the US we have to deal with it. Our IOC6 teams (though there are very few) have to add people to their team to compete at worlds because at our bid competitions we have to have less boys on the mat. The only reason that rule ever changed is because of what happened with Bangkok. They changed it to top 3 from each country because the US were taking up the top 10 spots meaning it wasn't a "true worlds". It may seem like the teams from other countries are being shafted, but look at how the US teams are being shafted.

This one rule may hurt teams, but other rules have hurt teams as well and they were still implemented. I am all for international teams competing, but make it fair across the board and that means removing the top 3 rule and add back some emphasis on tumbling.

When the US basketball team competes at the Olympics against other countries they aren't made to not do certain things because they can do it better then the other countires. Same goes with any other sport that puts country v country.