All-Star International Unfairness

[scottish_cheerleader]

The issue of having no team for the 19+ athletes is common to the large majority of teams in the US as well. Very few gyms in the US have teams for this age group. The mega gyms are the exception.

its 17+ but... not 19+ our kids get kicked into senior at 16 here... so i would need to offer a team for my 16 year olds and leave me with a group of ... 4 not in that team? we have international open divisions here so its 14+ (generally although there is no bottom limit on senior teams here) that is the senior division here

 

[redsmom]

its 17+ but... not 19+ our kids get kicked into senior at 16 here... so i would need to offer a team for my 16 year olds and leave me with a group of ... 4 not in that team? we have international open divisions here so its 14+ (generally although there is no bottom limit on senior teams here) that is the senior division here

I realize the age is 17+, my point was that in the US club teams take care of the 18 and under athletes, leaving the majority of gyms with no team for their 19+ athletes. (So there are quite a few gyms in the US that are also impacted significantly by this rule, obviously not the mega gyms).

 

[scottish_cheerleader]

I realize the age is 17+, my point was that in the US club teams take care of the 18 and under athletes, leaving the majority of gyms with no team for their 19+ athletes. (So there are quite a few gyms in the US that are also impacted significantly by this rule, obviously not the mega gyms).

ah okay
in here junior is under 16, senior is currently any team including one member which is 16+

so for us to got for worlds bids we know currently we need a team of athletes aged 14+ as we will be in international open. thats achievable for us

to make the age 17+ would mean we wouldnt be able to send teams to worlds as we simply dont have the athletes that are 17+!

i understand it still effects the us gyms, but you have other options to go to worlds ( like senior) we dont have that option as an international team

 

[kristenthegreat]

.

EFS (edited for space)- When you come to America and we open our NYC cheer gym- you're writing all the inspirational pep talks for every coach. Shimmy 1000000000000x

 

[Sharkie]

i totally understand the frustrating that some feel that the rule only seems to apply to usa-teams

on the other hands i got the idea that most foreign teams that go to worlds are already 17+
also many foreign teams are very far behind the USA teams, not having such a rich cheerhistory as the usa, not the experiance and not the advantage of athletes being trained as cheerleaders as young kids but on a rather old age, many start on the age they'd be senior in the usa, or even too old to be a senior!

im from europe and many in my team started around the age of 16. my youngest member is 15 years old, several are in their 20's. none of them is being a cheerleader longer than 3 years. and im not only talking about my teams, it's the same with the others. we dont have the choice of which gym we go to and which team we'll be in. i see the same here all over: teams struggling to get 3 stuntgroups together on the floor, dealing with all kinds of levels and therefor not making that much progression.
coaches having hardly any experience and always needing to hire expensive coaches from overseas if they wanna be good.

i dont know what would be the perfect solution for this problem. i know several teams that got selected to go to worlds and they dont go to compete, but just for the honor to be on that same floor as these amazing teams.

 

[XtremeWpg]

I suppose it depends on the goal of your IO teams. Personally, our IO6 has zer0 intention of going to Worlds. Most of my girls won't have a tuck, never mind a full. And ask me how much I care? As an international team in a small market, we've had to adapt. I coach primarily 18+ athletes, they have no choice but to be IO6. If I could be IO4, I would. We've accepted our lack of tumbling, and worked VERY hard to over come the points lost in that area by having solid stunts, choreo etc.

I have little sympathy of any IO teams in the USA. Obviously you can field these teams. Other countries simply are not there yet. And now, with this age grid change, they've put us behind significantly, in my opinion, because we don't have the athlete pool to creat a solid team of 24 lv5 or 6 athletes who are 17+. Of all the programs and teams in my city, I think I could make a team of about 15-18 who could max level 5 tumbling.

The USASF needs to stop looking at everything as so US centric. There are other teams out there, who do want to compete, but for a little while, we'll need a little help until our talent base comes even *close* to that of the USA.

 

[Sharkie]

for the international teams, our biggest battle is not the one on the floor at worlds, our biggest fight is the one we must fight day after day in daily life, in order to be able to do the sport we love!

im currently organising the national cheer competiton, not an easy task!
noone wants to help us sponsor the event, so we cant efford a floor with mats, it will be a hard gymfloor again.
we cant get any media to come and stop by for a little article in a local newspaper or a highlight in the local news.
the only cheerleaders here getting any attention are those girls that call themselves cheerleaders, dress up in a diamond bra to dance at a basketball game (go watch those uniforms usasf!!!) or that do a bikini carwash to promote some kind of sportsteam.

last year my team got arrested for handing out flyers to promote the team. here the law is that you need permission from the town major to promote anything. i did write the letter to ask for permission but never got an answer. after the trouble we got , i wrote another letter to the major to explain what has happened and asked why we never got an answer. we did got an answer this time: "sorry we dont have time to waste on highschool girls that watch too many movies!"
while we are a registered sportsclub.

we love cheerleading, and we wanna grow in it, but getting amazing skills isnt our hardest task, our hardest task is to be able to continue while getting no support whatsoever!

 

[worldsring09]

Ok, I have a question...so the way I read the current international age rule...that you must be 14 by the calendar year of the comp, including Worlds So you can be on the team and be 12 until December, turn 13 this past December, and if you compete at Worlds this year, as long as you turn 14 in December 2012, you are all good this year??

 

[Mom Jeans]

I don't agree with the "they just don't want us winning" part of your post. Check how many times an International team has won the IOC/IO 5 division. Sure we'd like to place in the top 3 of the international division but I've never heard of anyone on an international team complain or wish that US teams wouldn't compete in their division so they 'd have more chance winning a world championship ring. Ask any International team and they would tell you that you can't really call it a competition in the International division unless you're competing with a US team. Personally, I would rather get 5th in the world behind a US team rather than being a world champion without having to compete against the likes of SOT, CA Wildcats or Top Gun.

I said this because thats the reason I've been given for having only the top 3 in the US go to finals, but if thats not the case then hallelujah! I totally agree! Lets just move the top 10 in finals regardless of country. I personally think the Int. countries have gotten really good and after last years Worlds I asked the question why do we do it the current way. There are many teams in the US with the same struggles.

 

[Mom Jeans]

I suppose it depends on the goal of your IO teams. Personally, our IO6 has zer0 intention of going to Worlds. Most of my girls won't have a tuck, never mind a full. And ask me how much I care? As an international team in a small market, we've had to adapt. I coach primarily 18+ athletes, they have no choice but to be IO6. If I could be IO4, I would. We've accepted our lack of tumbling, and worked VERY hard to over come the points lost in that area by having solid stunts, choreo etc.

I have little sympathy of any IO teams in the USA. Obviously you can field these teams. Other countries simply are not there yet. And now, with this age grid change, they've put us behind significantly, in my opinion, because we don't have the athlete pool to creat a solid team of 24 lv5 or 6 athletes who are 17+. Of all the programs and teams in my city, I think I could make a team of about 15-18 who could max level 5 tumbling.

The USASF needs to stop looking at everything as so US centric. There are other teams out there, who do want to compete, but for a little while, we'll need a little help until our talent base comes even *close* to that of the USA.

I know of many who started out the season with only a handful of kids, everyone struggles. Last year we never had the same roster for more than 1 comp because people were always quitting, its was very difficult.

 

[Mr May]

So here's the question to those of you from other countries who believe that having different rules for different teams in the same division is a good idea. What happens when in the future one of these international teams not from the us wins? Do you want to be the next Bangkok in which you win or share a title but everyone knows it shouldn't have happened? Do you want to be the team with an asterisk by your name for the win? Then is it truly a win at all? So when do the special circumstances end? What's the exit strategy on fairness?

 

[XtremeWpg]

I know of many who started out the season with only a handful of kids, everyone struggles. Last year we never had the same roster for more than 1 comp because people were always quitting, its was very difficult.

I realize this was a very broad generalization. On the whole, the US as a country has an easier time fielding IO teams in the new age bracket.

 

[XtremeWpg]

So here's the question to those of you from other countries who believe that having different rules for different teams in the same division is a good idea. What happens when in the future one of these international teams not from the us wins? Do you want to be the next Bangkok in which you win or share a title but everyone knows it shouldn't have happened? Do you want to be the team with an asterisk by your name for the win? Then is it truly a win at all? So when do the special circumstances end? What's the exit strategy on fairness?

I don't agree with having different rules or special circumstances at all. I was perfectly fine, and remain perfectly fine with the "old" age grid. I feel that its the new ones that will create problems.

 

[ztaprincess]

They changed it so only 3 teams from each country make it to finals, they gave a gold globe to a team that cheated, and now they are going to allow other countries to not follow the same age restrictions that the US teams do. How much easier do they need to make it for other countries to win or even place top 3?
Let's not forget the down play of tumbling and the fact that this year at US competitons for IOC6 you have to win a bid with less boys on the mat then you will have at worlds because they want to be fair to the international teams who compete at the ICU. Oh and lastly they implemented the ICU age guidelines for the international teams.

Now again how much easier do they need to make it for international teams to place top 3 or higher? Show me where they have made a rule other then the new age grid that is strictly to benefit the US.
With the way things are going they need to just say no more US teams in these divisions.

 

[scottish_cheerleader]

They changed it so only 3 teams from each country make it to finals, they gave a gold globe to a team that cheated, and now they are going to allow other countries to not follow the same age restrictions that the US teams do. How much easier do they need to make it for other countries to win or even place top 3?
Let's not forget the down play of tumbling and the fact that this year at US competitons for IOC6 you have to win a bid with less boys on the mat then you will have at worlds because they want to be fair to the international teams who compete at the ICU. Oh and lastly they implemented the ICU age guidelines for the international teams.

Now again how much easier do they need to make it for international teams to place top 3 or higher? Show me where they have made a rule other then the new age grid that is strictly to benefit the US.
With the way things are going they need to just say no more US teams in these divisions.

im not suggesting we have different rules, i dont see why we cant all have the 14+ for international division rule