All-Star Is All Star At The Proverbial Fork In The Road?

[Aussiekat]

I love NCATA the skills are gorgeous to watch.

Question: if you have endorsement deals as an allstar cheerleader, does that make you ineligible for amateur status in a different sport?

 

[FamousxMindset]

I actually see the opposite, over recent years the sport has recognized the purpose of hitting a clean routine. I genuinely see coaches and athletes building strong techniques in stunting and tumbling. To seriously make cheer a sport means we would have to sacrifice everything that makes our sport so unique. It's not worth it

 

[Official OWECheer]

There is a part of me that will always love the flash (sparkly uniforms) and sass (big hair and big bows) that all-star cheer possesses...however...I just think it's gotten out of hand. The "fierce" obsession, in my experience, is what has made this sport unappealing and tacky to outsiders. If I see one more group "wall picture"...well....

There's so much emphasis on getting that fierce hair whip, snap, clap bippity bop business in..people have stopped paying attention to executing the skills with solid technique. Although I want to see everyone go out there and perform their butts off and own the stage, I just feel it's more important to have the technique be the main focus, esp. for future health.

I wholeheartedly disagree that AS will have to go in one direction or the other...there definitely was a time when teams put on amazing dances, performed new incredible skills etc. and we all weren't jumping saying this isn't even really AS cheer anymore. Somehow, we let AS slip into even more ambiguity. I believe we can evolve, and still have our unique sport without having to split or get too far away from the foundations in which AS was created.

 

[Carson92]

I actually see the opposite, over recent years the sport has recognized the purpose of hitting a clean routine. I genuinely see coaches and athletes building strong techniques in stunting and tumbling. To seriously make cheer a sport means we would have to sacrifice everything that makes our sport so unique. It's not worth it

I think the purpose has been recognized too for sure, as well as the safety aspects that go along with executing proper technique, but man go to any comp really and it's evident there's a lot who still disregard it completely - and that makes me sad!

For me, it's simply I think there's little things that could be toned down that would just make a huge difference in helping others accept this as a legitimate sport.


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[catlady]

Over the years, I have seen more and more creative and eye catching choreography that is winning and hitting, and I will admit I love to watch it. A lot of confidence, sharp execution and beautifully pulled body positions. But, then I hear what I think are the sore losers and I go back and look at the same team video taken at a corner view, and I have then questioned "how did they win?". You then see a lot of poor tumbling (but, man they whip those pony's around and look fierce after their really poor tumbling) and grandma jumps that were hidden by unique transitions, and stunt groups in the back doing much easier skills (in comparison to their competition) but, with flyers with great confidence, positions and movements so you don't notice.

Obviously, great choreography and great skill/technique is the perfect combination but, when it isn't, what should be rewarded? Great choreography will head AS more toward a dance score sheet which is more subjective, skill/technique will head AS toward a more objective score sheet. I'm not minimizing either one but, this is where I see a big struggle occurring in AS and where I see athletes, parents, coaches and owners getting frustrated. Where do you put your money and time? When it boils down to technique or choreography, what should take the win in your opinion?

 

[tumbleyoda]

Over the years, I have seen more and more creative and eye catching choreography that is winning and hitting, and I will admit I love to watch it. A lot of confidence, sharp execution and beautifully pulled body positions. But, then I hear what I think are the sore losers and I go back and look at the same team video taken at a corner view, and I have then questioned "how did they win?". You then see a lot of poor tumbling (but, man they whip those pony's around and look fierce after their really poor tumbling) and grandma jumps that were hidden by unique transitions, and stunt groups in the back doing much easier skills (in comparison to their competition) but, with flyers with great confidence, positions and movements so you don't notice.

Obviously, great choreography and great skill/technique is the perfect combination but, when it isn't, what should be rewarded? Great choreography will head AS more toward a dance score sheet which is more subjective, skill/technique will head AS toward a more objective score sheet. I'm not minimizing either one but, this is where I see a big struggle occurring in AS and where I see athletes, parents, coaches and owners getting frustrated. Where do you put your money and time? When it boils down to technique or choreography, what should take the win in your opinion?

This year, more than any other year, we have lost at competitions due to the fact that we are not a "foot stomp, pony tail whip, shimmying, wink and nod" type of performing program. Our youth have gotten hit because they don't sell it and dance like seniors. Our juniors have had incredibly difficult stunt sequences but because the fliers are winking, nodding or shimmying we lose in the overall impression categories. Our seniors make the stunting look too easy, as if they should be bobbling and falling all over the place. Being an UCA style gym, this is been a difficult lesson to learn. The skills didn't matter. The execution didn't matter. The fact the stunt went up and did not move didn't matter. The fact it was a true whip and not a crappy BHS with no hands or a low flying projectile piked over layout did not matter. It mattered that the fliers didn't shimmy and pony tail whip. It mattered that they didn't choreograph spirit after landing a tumbling pass.

All subjective. All personal opinion. But enough to cause teams to lose competitions and in some cases bids.

At this point, we need to know who is judging to determine what to focus on the week before the competition. Smh.

We had a great year, make no mistake about it. Teams looked better than ever across the board. But it is hard to explain you lost because it has been subjectively declared the other team was better over a shimmy and pony tail whip. So I feel we are going as an industry more toward a dance style, performance direction. Where the skills matter, but how you sell them matter more.

 

[NCCheerMama]

We are leaving All-Stars after this year for so many reasons, and a large part of it is I do not like how AS is trending. Maybe after a year ot two things will change (things toned-down really-I just see it all ramping up-the uniforms, the hair, the overused sassiness and I just don't like it). I just came back from Daytona and was blown away. I loved NCA-no cheerlebrities, no crazy mamas, everyone cheered each other on, even moreso when a team was faltering. It is true-moving from AS to college is difficult-my CP had terrible shin splints even though she was used to cheering football and basketball games at school-but practicing day after day on dead floor just about killed her. STUNT just started in HS in our county and I hope it becomes bigger, and I see my youngest CP headed in that direction. I hope within the next 5 years STUNT is at more schools in our area. I have a lot of hopes I guess-my CP has more natural talent than her sister, but this year has just about killed us, and we need the much needed break.

 

[NoOneSpecial]

Question: Are A&T athletes allowed to continue to compete in all star cheer as well (like folks do with college cheer and IAG/IOC teams?) I know it is likely impossible to do both schedule-wise and training wise, but is it technically permitted? Or does NCATA prohibit that?

I don't think there is rules written if they can/cannot participate in AS. It is impossible to do both.

Isn't NCATA what Kiara Nowlin and that girl from CEA do at Baylor? I thought they were on sports scholarships? Doesn't a sports scholarship = NCAA in D1-D3 college?

Yes if does. NCATA is an emerging support and follows NCAA rules.

 

[Official OWECheer]

This year, more than any other year, we have lost at competitions due to the fact that we are not a "foot stomp, pony tail whip, shimmying, wink and nod" type of performing program. Our youth have gotten hit because they don't sell it and dance like seniors. Our juniors have had incredibly difficult stunt sequences but because the fliers are winking, nodding or shimmying we lose in the overall impression categories. Our seniors make the stunting look too easy, as if they should be bobbling and falling all over the place. Being an UCA style gym, this is been a difficult lesson to learn. The skills didn't matter. The execution didn't matter. The fact the stunt went up and did not move didn't matter. The fact it was a true whip and not a crappy BHS with no hands or a low flying projectile piked over layout did not matter. It mattered that the fliers didn't shimmy and pony tail whip. It mattered that they didn't choreograph spirit after landing a tumbling pass.

All subjective. All personal opinion. But enough to cause teams to lose competitions and in some cases bids.

At this point, we need to know who is judging to determine what to focus on the week before the competition. Smh.

We had a great year, make no mistake about it. Teams looked better than ever across the board. But it is hard to explain you lost because it has been subjectively declared the other team was better over a shimmy and pony tail whip. So I feel we are going as an industry more toward a dance style, performance direction. Where the skills matter, but how you sell them matter more.

I didn't even think UCA style gyms existed anymore! But I find that incredibly frustrating.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I didn't even think UCA style gyms existed anymore! But I find that incredibly frustrating.

Most of our core staff, directors, and coaches are either UCA staffers or gymnastics coaches/gymnasts. We know clean. We don't know shimmy, fierce, finger snap...lol.

 

[BuegeSmalls]

Most of our core staff, directors, and coaches are either UCA staffers or gymnastics coaches/gymnasts. We know clean. We don't know shimmy, fierce, finger snap...lol.

What gym are you at? I think you just became my new favorite.


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[omgitssydthekid]

This year, more than any other year, we have lost at competitions due to the fact that we are not a "foot stomp, pony tail whip, shimmying, wink and nod" type of performing program. Our youth have gotten hit because they don't sell it and dance like seniors. Our juniors have had incredibly difficult stunt sequences but because the fliers are winking, nodding or shimmying we lose in the overall impression categories. Our seniors make the stunting look too easy, as if they should be bobbling and falling all over the place. Being an UCA style gym, this is been a difficult lesson to learn. The skills didn't matter. The execution didn't matter. The fact the stunt went up and did not move didn't matter. The fact it was a true whip and not a crappy BHS with no hands or a low flying projectile piked over layout did not matter. It mattered that the fliers didn't shimmy and pony tail whip. It mattered that they didn't choreograph spirit after landing a tumbling pass.

All subjective. All personal opinion. But enough to cause teams to lose competitions and in some cases bids.

At this point, we need to know who is judging to determine what to focus on the week before the competition. Smh.

We had a great year, make no mistake about it. Teams looked better than ever across the board. But it is hard to explain you lost because it has been subjectively declared the other team was better over a shimmy and pony tail whip. So I feel we are going as an industry more toward a dance style, performance direction. Where the skills matter, but how you sell them matter more.

We've had the same problems, but we're all NCA staff. We've consistently had some of the highest (if not the highest) stunt and tumbling difficultly and highest technique scores in their divisions but my kids are losing because they are not dancers. Or they lose because of creativity even though they beat the teams in every other section besides the ones that are extremely subjective (dance, creativity, overall impression). I think their routines are creative (I'm the one that came up with them haha), but I'm not the judge. Most of them are new to cheer so performing still isn't natural for them and the feel silly so I feel lucky to get a smile out of some of them on competition day haha. It's a bummer to see kids miss out on a win because of those categories but it is what it is since those are part of the scoresheet.


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[Official OWECheer]

Most of our core staff, directors, and coaches are either UCA staffers or gymnastics coaches/gymnasts. We know clean. We don't know shimmy, fierce, finger snap...lol.

Heck yeah!

 

[SL&AM]

Most of our core staff, directors, and coaches are either UCA staffers or gymnastics coaches/gymnasts. We know clean. We don't know shimmy, fierce, finger snap...lol.

I'm curious, not in a judgey way I swear, but what is the plan going forward for your gym? I respect clean and strong technique a lot, but knowing it'll likely keep you lower on the awards than you deserve, will you start focusing on the shimmying, fierce, and snapping fingers in the future?

 

[piglet]

@tumbleyoda---I just wanted to say how much I truly appreciate all of your posts. You never fail to inform and educate, and you do it with such professionalism and kindness! Really love your POV.

So, on that note, can you (and anyone!) elaborate on what it specifically means to you to be a UCA-style gym? I'm gathering it basically entails being clean/sharp, valuing execution over showmanship & finger snapping, pony wagging, etc....Can you elaborate the other aspects that signify UCA-style to you?

I think of Stingrays when I think of clean, but are Rays considered UCA-style? I've guess I've always wondered the major differences between UCA, NCA and others but never really thought about it being an actual thing. And so even with the unified Varsity score sheet, does UCA-style not typically win outside of UCA comps?

Thank you for educating this West Coast mama!