All-Star Is It A Failure To Not Progress?

[Level5Mom]

This is a great discussion but the whole thread makes me queasy. It's like trying to define "happiness". This could go on for hundreds of pages with no agreement.

Food for thought: the NCA jacket for Mini 1 looks the same as the NCA jacket for Senior 5.

 

[Xtremegirls:)]

I feel like its just everyones personal opinion. If you feel that success for you is just finding something that you love and enjoy, even if it is staying on the same level for 10 years, then that's great. Some other people may feel that success for them is moving up a level each year and throwing new skills for each tryout and that's okay too!

 

[cheermommaRN]

The idea that it a child doesn't progress a level a year makes anyone a failure is ridiculous, and that's putting it nicely. I agree with @Kris10boo. It's about effort. If my child goes to practice everyday and busts her butt to me she is winning. Yes we are repeating level 2 but you know what...she is more excited about repeating this team then I have ever seen her before! She has spent the last 2 years playing catch up and now thanks to an amazing coach that she has bonded with he has started turning her into the amazing cheerleader he knows she can be (and a carbon copy of him). This year she gets to be a key member of her team and not just a nugget in the back during tumbling or a front spot that can't reach the stunt. To me this is more successful then if they had thrown her on Senior 3 and had her once again be hidden by "creative choreography".
Also the value of the athlete should not lie solely on whether or not they move up or not. Sometimes an athlete takes one for the team so to say because you have a awesome level 2 team but need that amazing base even though she has her tuck, does it make her a failure? No it makes her valued by her program and her teammates.
Every kid walks into SOT wanting to be Small Coed, including my cp...will she get there? Maybe? Maybe not...But if she doesn't I wouldn't consider her cheer career a "failure".

 

[CGAcheer]

Progress to me is improvement in your skills, Whether that means moving up a level per year has more to do with your rate of progress and is not a great indicator since there can be a huge variety of skill level kids within one skill level.

a kid who starts the year with standing 2 bhs and a round off tuck on a level 3 team and a kid who has amazing jumps to standing bhs, bhs step out ro bhs tuck and punch front are both on level 3 but have vastly different skill levels. Progress for the first one would be having more power in her standing bhs's and being able to do a specialty pass through to tuck running. Progress for the 2nd kid would be getting to level 4.

a Blanket level per year doesn't work, but I do feel that if you don't tryout with something you didn't have at the previous year's tryout then something went wrong

 

[cheermommaRN]

Also, while some kids may thrive under the pressure of being placed on a higher level team and expected to push themselves to gain the skills, others do not. For those kids it makes this sport a job and the fun gets sucked out quickly. Maybe that means that CEA isn't the gym for them. It just proves that there is a gym for every kid, you just have to find that magical fit.
And I've said it before and I'll say it again...I would rather my child be on a team that is skill appropriate from day one then one a team that has 50/50 skills. WE Airborne was a good example of this last season, those kids dominated the J2 division because they were true level 2 kids, not a mix of 1 and 2. I know smaller gyms have no choice to go that direction but if you have the talent to have a amazing program from 1 to 5 why wouldn't you?

 

[emkaayx]

i think you are just reading way too far into it, Courtney didn't post it to start contreversy, someone asked her a question and she answered it truthfully

 

[FierceinTeal]

i think you are just reading way too far into it, Courtney didn't post it to start contreversy, someone asked her a question and she answered it truthfully

I agree. Everyone’s reading way too far into the statement. Do you all honestly believe there is no athlete in the CEA gym that hasn’t been on the same level for more than 1 year? Or that she considers them a "failure" because they didn’t move up? She was just saying it’s her job as a coach to teach the skills needed to be successful in whatever level throughout the year. She said they have so many level 5 teams because they are filled with kids who WILL BE level 5, and she rather push them to move up rather then to place them on their current levels and not expect them to progress.

 

[cheerfor2]

@Mamarazzi , I understand cheerleading is expensive and time consuming but how is it any different then a parent paying for their child to be on a traveling baseball team even though the child may be benched. I agree with you but I think we all need to realize that those thousands of dollars spent arent only for skills. Unless a parent is planning on cheerleading to give their child a scholarship to college, then what good will that full do for them when they are adults. On the contrary, the friends they made, and the ability to work with a team will carry on to later stages of their lives. Long story short, if the child loves what they are doing, regardless whether they are on a level 1 team or level 5 team for 8 years, its worth it.

Can I shimmy this 1000 times?

 

[King]

see my other post

btw, how can you not have the "desire" and still enjoy cheerleading?
also, yeah at the end of the day they are both still doctors, but I'm much more inclined to go to the one w/the better credentials (and before you ask, I do actually research them before I choose one).

People are getting too touchy about this...if you're content w/your current program and progress..good for you. If none of my "examples" apply to you and you're still happy w/a lower level, good for you. I have no problem with that...Why do people seem to have a hard time understanding the bigger picture or CEA's philosophy? Stop taking things personally for a minute and really look at the analogies. I'm not personally saying there is anything wrong w/remaining in a lower level your entire cheer career. However, I suspect that is most often not the case...JMO

It isn't something personal for me against CEA. If you had researched I have said many times the way they do business works, they have won and competed well at Worlds, so I have no problem with that.

Now, as to speaking in analogies, I do it so others may understand situations too complicated for them. I could speak more directly, but I would hate to be over peoples heads.

 

[King]

I don't believe she posted it to cause controversy. I have specifically stayed out of that other thread because the way they do things and the way I think how things should be done are two completely different philosophies. Causing heated discussion in that thread would no serve the community (that is who this board is for). This thread was specifically started to talk about one piece of the puzzle, and rightly started in a new thread. So the thread has taken a life on of its own.

Do the ends justify the means? Thats a bigger picture question for this.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I also think some people need to realize that not everyone has capability to be "great" and/or excel in this sport. Just as some people aren't meant to be in the top of their class academically. However, you are way more likely to get results from kids in either group with quality instruction and setting high standards than accepting mediocrity IMO. If that's not happening (your kid isn't learning, progressing, etc.) to meet those standards, then maybe one must re-evaluate their situation. I mean, you don't get numerous years to try to pass geometry in high school do you and that's a requirement! You have to master numerous new academic skills every single year! And before anyone says something about comparing the two again, let's remember that there are plenty of children who fare far worse academically than in sports. It's not their forte. Anyway, the point is if I'm paying for instruction of any kind and I don't see progression then either a)the instruction isn't meeting my child's needs or b)my child isn't meant to do this. There are plenty of other recreational activities you can choose for building confidence, self-esteem, etc. (including non competitive cheerleading) We chose competitive cheerleading over rec. cheerleading for a reason didn't we? If the goal isn't to be the best, then why would we (as parents) want to fork over thousands of dollars for our kid to compete in cheerleading at a level 2 for 10 years (which is probably closer to tens of thousands of dollars at that point), just so she can be the "best damn level 2 cheerleader she can be"? Seriously? While I agree with Kingston that everyone can't be a level 5 cheerleader and that there's nothing wrong with it, why continue to take someone's money for that long if you know they'll never progress? Is is just about the money to you? Why not suggest a non competitive, but similar sport to them at that point?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

It isn't something personal for me against CEA. If you had researched I have said many times the way they do business works, they have won and competed well at Worlds, so I have no problem with that.

Now, as to speaking in analogies, I do it so others may understand situations too complicated for them. I could speak more directly, but I would hate to be over peoples heads.

I wasn't singling you out directly about taking things too personally, just everyone in general who seems to take it personally.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I understand that it's not for everyone. I never went to Duke myself! Maybe if I had a teacher (kinda like a coach like Courtney) who didn't let me get away w/taking the easy way out I could have :p
Different teachers have different ways to get the best out of kids...some methods work better on the majority and some not so much...

 

[Mo-Lissa]

I also think some people need to realize that not everyone has capability to be "great" and/or excel in this sport. Just as some people aren't meant to be in the top of their class academically. However, you are way more likely to get results from kids in either group with quality instruction and setting high standards than accepting mediocrity IMO. If that's not happening (your kid isn't learning, progressing, etc.) to meet those standards, then maybe one must re-evaluate their situation. I mean, you don't get numerous years to try to pass geometry in high school do you and that's a requirement! You have to master numerous new academic skills every single year! And before anyone says something about comparing the two again, let's remember that there are plenty of children who fare far worse academically than in sports. It's not their forte. Anyway, the point is if I'm paying for instruction of any kind and I don't see progression then either a)the instruction isn't meeting my child's needs or b)my child isn't meant to do this. There are plenty of other recreational activities you can choose for building confidence, self-esteem, etc. (including non competitive cheerleading) We chose competitive cheerleading over rec. cheerleading for a reason didn't we? If the goal isn't to be the best, then why would we (as parents) want to fork over thousands of dollars for our kid to compete in cheerleading at a level 2 for 10 years (which is probably closer to tens of thousands of dollars at that point), just so she can be the "best damn level 2 cheerleader she can be"? Seriously? While I agree with Kingston that everyone can't be a level 5 cheerleader and that there's nothing wrong with it, why continue to take someone's money for that long if you know they'll never progress? Is is just about the money to you? Why not suggest a non competitive, but similar sport to them at that point?

So what values are you teaching your child....winning at all costs, or winning with integrity, or sorry if you turn out to be a loser...cause if you do you have no worth. I have no idea how good your CP is, or how long you have been in this world of allstar cheerleading. But remember your child is always one injury, one boyfriend from that college scholarship. And in the long run it is the memories, and the fun that is remembered when they are older. I speak from experience with 2 CP one old and graduated out and one a freshman in high school that is a level 5 athlete.

 

[bxxtanyer]

just throwing this out there but i have seen some level 2 cheerleaders with more dedication and more heart than some level 5 cheerleaders, I personally do not believe that being a good cheerleader is just based on skill, I mean yeah you have a standing full and special to full, but are you dedicated? Do you put your heart and soul into your routine? Do you treat cheerleaders of ALL levels with the same respect they deserve? I personally don't care if your level 5 or level 1 you will get the same respect from me, just because your a level 5 cheerleader does not give you the right to be little someone on a lower level team. Are they failures for being on a level 2 team for 3 years? absolutely not. I believe the real failures are the coaches that only care about having high level teams and everyone moving up and not teaching athletes character and respect.
And coaches that believe that an athlete is a failure because they do not move up.

sorry about that it was kinda a rant.;)

and I certainlly didn't mean to offend anyone I know A LOT of higher level athletes are humble and kind people but some gyms I can deffinitly name a few believe that lower level teams/kids repeating levels are "failures".