All-Star Is It A Failure To Not Progress?

[gofriars610]

i don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone who comes in as a mini level 1 to advance to level five within five years. i think that's smart business. children will rise to the occasion or standards that they are presented with. it's motivation.
if/when i have CPs and i pay thousands of dollars a year and see no improvement (not just in level, but if they're still doing the same stunts, tumbling, etc), i'm going to be upset. i think i have a right to be.
it does not mean your child is a "failure" if they don't progress past a bhs or whatever. i do not think courtney meant to claim that the athletes themselves were failures. i think that she was referring to herself feeling like a failure because she could not coach the athletes to advance.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

So what values are you teaching your child....winning at all costs, or winning with integrity, or sorry if you turn out to be a loser...cause if you do you have no worth. I have no idea how good your CP is, or how long you have been in this world of allstar cheerleading. But remember your child is always one injury, one boyfriend from that college scholarship. And in the long run it is the memories, and the fun that is remembered when they are older. I speak from experience with 2 CP one old and graduated out and one a freshman in high school that is a level 5 athlete.

No, not at all. She's by far not one of the best in the gym for her age/level. And no, I do not teach her that it's all about winning or that she's a "loser" bc she can't do something. I do not push her overtly hard, I'm sure any of her coaches can attest to that. I do not get caught into the "who's the best" or "my kid's the best" either. I want her to enjoy it at her age, bc if forced or expected to do it, then how can she love it? However, if over the next couple of years she does not progress past her current level, then I would definitely reevaluate keeping her in the sport competitively. I would certainly entertain other interests, non competitive cheer, etc. I would never pay that kind of money to keep my child in a sport where she didn't progress past a level 2 in 10 years, however I did not say I wouldn't let her do it at all. I just wouldn't pay for it.

Matter of fact, I told my daughter at the end of this season that there were probably a couple of different options regarding which team(s) she might make. I felt pretty certain she wasn't going to make our Mini 3 team. Now she loves this team and has many friends on it (even thought she wasn't on it herself), but I told her that was a very good possibility she wouldn't make it this year because not everyone progresses the same way (only a handful from her previous skill level made that kind of progression and made that team this year) and that team is much harder than the one she was on at the time. I went over a couple of different scenarios with her and made it perfectly clear to her that no matter what team she made, mommy would never be upset with her for giving something her best and that there was nothing wrong w/making one of the other teams bc she still progressed mountains over what she came to CEA with last year. So I politely beg to differ w/your hasty judgement.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

i don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone who comes in as a mini level 1 to advance to level five within five years. i think that's smart business. children will rise to the occasion or standards that they are presented with. it's motivation.
if/when i have CPs and i pay thousands of dollars a year and see no improvement (not just in level, but if they're still doing the same stunts, tumbling, etc), i'm going to be upset. i think i have a right to be.
it does not mean your child is a "failure" if they don't progress past a bhs or whatever. i do not think courtney meant to claim that the athletes themselves were failures. i think that she was referring to herself feeling like a failure because she could not coach the athletes to advance.

Yes! Thank you for your point of view! If my child isn't an elite cheerleader, it wasn't meant to be for her...but at least I will know that she was given the best possible opportunity w/the best quality of instruction to flourish. I will not condemn her bc she might never be a level 5 athlete.

I would feel the same way about school. If she excels in one subject (or many), but clearly demonstrates struggles or the inability to grasp certain subjects, no matter how much I pay a tutor, etc. I will not be upset with her, as long as I truly know she gave it her best.

 

[bxxtanyer]

i don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone who comes in as a mini level 1 to advance to level five within five years. i think that's smart business. children will rise to the occasion or standards that they are presented with. it's motivation.
if/when i have CPs and i pay thousands of dollars a year and see no improvement (not just in level, but if they're still doing the same stunts, tumbling, etc), i'm going to be upset. i think i have a right to be.
it does not mean your child is a "failure" if they don't progress past a bhs or whatever. i do not think courtney meant to claim that the athletes themselves were failures. i think that she was referring to herself feeling like a failure because she could not coach the athletes to advance.

but don't all athletes progresses at different rates?

 

[gofriars610]

but don't all athletes progresses at different rates?

well yes, but if athletes are motivated/coached/trained correctly you should definitely see at least SOME progression, whether it be increased strength or improved stunts/tumbling/etc.
if my future CP starts off the year in june with a heavily spotted bhs and is unable to base a prep and is at the exact same level the following april after MONTHS of training and coaching i think i have a right to be concerned with what is going on.

 

[Mo-Lissa]

No, not at all. She's by far not one of the best in the gym for her age/level. And no, I do not teach her that it's all about winning or that she's a "loser" bc she can't do something. I do not push her overtly hard, I'm sure any of her coaches can attest to that. I do not get caught into the "who's the best" or "my kid's the best" either. I want her to enjoy it at her age, bc if forced or expected to do it, then how can she love it? However, if over the next couple of years she does not progress past her current level, then I would definitely reevaluate keeping her in the sport competitively. I would certainly entertain other interests, non competitive cheer, etc. I would never pay that kind of money to keep my child in a sport where she didn't progress past a level 2 in 10 years, however I did not say I wouldn't let her do it at all. I just wouldn't pay for it.

Matter of fact, I told my daughter at the end of this season that there were probably a couple of different options regarding which team(s) she might make. I felt pretty certain she wasn't going to make our Mini 3 team. Now she loves this team and has many friends on it (even thought she wasn't on it herself), but I told her that was a very good possibility she wouldn't make it this year because not everyone progresses the same way (only a handful from her previous skill level made that kind of progression and made that team this year) and that team is much harder than the one she was on at the time. I went over a couple of different scenarios with her and made it perfectly clear to her that no matter what team she made, mommy would never be upset with her for giving something her best and that there was nothing wrong w/making one of the other teams bc she still progressed mountains over what she came to CEA with last year. So I politely beg to differ w/your hasty judgement.

I was just reading all the posts you wrote to everyone about CEA not being the gym for them and so on if they couldn't cut it.....so I figured you must be a veteran parent with a very experienced child from what you had written. If that was not your intent, that was how I believe many took it. People could say I am a doing my child wrong leaving her at a small gym with the skills she has, in the past she has had more advanced tumbling than level teams we offered at our gym. This year we are finally fielding a senior open (restricted) 5, with grand hopes of going level 5 if we can get a few more doubles. My child pushes daily for harder skills, and I truly hope she loves it and is making memories for a life time. I am proud to watch our small gym grow and have pride my daughter was a part of this. All kids will not be level 5 athletes in my 15 years I have seen ALL types. But what parent of a child would take something from their child it they loved and enjoyed the sport, even if they never progress beyond a level 2. Maybe in a few years, you will understand what I am saying. But you put up some pretty harsh posts. No HASTY judgment here.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Oh and about athlete progression...If you've never played football (or insert pretty much any sport of choice) a day in your life, then tryout for your HS team and don't make it, but now you know what's required of you to make it next year and you want it really bad...you spend that year working on everything you need to work on, try out again and make it..you're still expected to progress or else you're likely to get cut the next year.

Or even talented athletes who do make the team, but fail to progress in the sport.....come tryout season you might be SOL bc guy from example above did progress enough. Or you play JV but want to play Varsity...If you stagnate, come tryout season guess who probably won't make varsity? etc....

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I was just reading all the posts you wrote to everyone about CEA not being the gym for them and so on if they couldn't cut it.....so I figured you must be a veteran parent with a very experienced child from what you had written. If that was not your intent, that was how I believe many took it. People could say I am a doing my child wrong leaving her at a small gym with the skills she has, in the past she has had more advanced tumbling than level teams we offered at our gym. This year we are finally fielding a senior open (restricted) 5, with grand hopes of going level 5 if we can get a few more doubles. My child pushes daily for harder skills, and I truly hope she loves it and is making memories for a life time. I am proud to watch our small gym grow and have pride my daughter was a part of this. All kids will not be level 5 athletes in my 15 years I have seen ALL types. But what parent of a child would take something from their child it they loved and enjoyed the sport, even if they never progress beyond a level 2. Maybe in a few years, you will understand what I am saying. But you put up some pretty harsh posts. No HASTY judgment here.

Let's just say I'm a veteran to cheer in general and one who has known ceacoach for quite some time..not gonna talk about age or anything and I do stand by what I've said. If that philosophy doesn't vibe w/you (you in general, not necessarily you specifically), then CEA isn't the gym for you. How is that wrong? Also, remember Courtney started out the same way too...from the ground up. Your issue seems to be a bit different than what I was specifically referring to (staying at the small gym you've been with for years) versus seeing not progressing properly as a problem. If your child has progressed properly in the sport (as it seems), then maybe you've got yourself a good coach who will one day be able to offer more advanced teams as they grow. Also, like I said, I would never take my child away from a sport they loved, but I wouldn't pay for it if they weren't capable. Let me put it to you in another way...Let's say your child wants to sing, so you put them in singing lessons. She sounds ok, maybe makes a little progress over a year or two, but after about three years you realize your child is not going to be on American Idol any time in her near future. Do you keep paying these ridiculous rates for lessons just bc she loves it? Or do you maybe let her sing for the youth choir in her church, chorus in school, etc... Does that make more sense?

 

[Mo-Lissa]

@xtremeteal4life I totally get the point you are trying to make.... I have known Courtney for years, and watched her gym from the ground up. We did open teams together with CEA when my family first started allstars. But I just feel some kids will not progress. That is why allstars now has levels. When we started it was divided allgirl and coed....youth , jr, and senior. Now we have 5 levels, so someone else realized not all kids will be level 5. You will always have someone better than you, but should quit or have your parents be the judge you don't have the talent. In the long run $3000 dollars is pretty cheap to keep your child fit and out of trouble. I would never wanna squash my child's dream. As for your varsity/jv example. I have watched young kids do soccer and baseball their whole life and not make the high school team. Micheal Jordan did not make Laney High School at first....We will never agree so I will call it truce.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

Also, like I said, I would never take my child away from a sport they loved, but I wouldn't pay for it if they weren't capable.

That is the beauty of all-star cheer. The way the current system is set up, it is virtually impossible to be incapable. Especially in lower levels, there is a team and position for everyone. Capability is completely subjective in this sport, and thus dependant upon the goals of the athlete, coaches, and parents.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

That is the beauty of all-star cheer. The way the current system is set up, it is virtually impossible to be incapable. Especially in lower levels, there is a team and position for everyone. Capability is completely subjective in this sport, and thus dependant upon the goals of the athlete, coaches, and parents.

You said it much better than I tried to in repeated posts earlier.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

@xtremeteal4life I totally get the point you are trying to make.... I have known Courtney for years, and watched her gym from the ground up. We did open teams together with CEA when my family first started allstars. But I just feel some kids will not progress. That is why allstars now has levels. When we started it was divided allgirl and coed....youth , jr, and senior. Now we have 5 levels, so someone else realized not all kids will be level 5. You will always have someone better than you, but should quit or have your parents be the judge you don't have the talent. In the long run $3000 dollars is pretty cheap to keep your child fit and out of trouble. I would never wanna squash my child's dream. As for your varsity/jv example. I have watched young kids do soccer and baseball their whole life and not make the high school team. Micheal Jordan did not make Laney High School at first....We will never agree so I will call it truce.

Agreed to disagree then ...I certainly apologize if you felt I was personally attacking you.

 

[SharkDad]

This is a great discussion but the whole thread makes me queasy. It's like trying to define "happiness". This could go on for hundreds of pages with no agreement.

Food for thought: the NCA jacket for Mini 1 looks the same as the NCA jacket for Senior 5.

Actually, it's usually much smaller

 

[newcheerdad]

I get the idea that if you are paying thousands of dollars to have your child cheer at an elite gym like CEA, you expect progress. You expect that child to make a level 5 team because that's what you have your kids there for, much like taking your child to an elite gymnastics facility or putting them on an elite soccer team.

However, there's room in all-star cheer for kids that may not progress to that level but enjoy the sport. I hope that nobody is suggesting these kids should stop participating just because cheer is expensive compared to other sports. If anything, as I've said in other threads, we should finding ways to get MORE kids into the sport with lower-cost alternatives.

 

[clyles]

I went to a CEA gym for tryouts not knowing what to expect. I have a strong backhandspring and I'm of senior age group. There was only one senior team at the location and it was an open level 5 team.... needless to say that I left crying and horrified thinking that I wasn't "good enough"... Nobody at the gym discouraged me but being surrounded by higher level athletes was intimidating. Knowing that it is a business, I don't think they would have turned me away. With this knowledge, I couldn't stay and take some other little girls' spot who actually has the skills. I wish CEA had more lower level teams for people who haven't progressed like myself.