All-Star Is It A Failure To Not Progress?

[gofriars610]

Braelyn walked into my gym last year to tryout for her high school squad. This child did NOT fit the mold of cheerleader but she busted her butt to learn the material and had such a positive attitude and eagerness to learn that she melted everyone into butter. She made the team based on sheer effort. She could barely walk and talk. Her attempt at a forward roll was the funniest thing I'd ever seen in my life. We started her with cartwheels by hopping over a rope.
Between Braelyns first practice in April of 2010 to the first practice of 2011 she has progressed to nailing a round off rebound that would make an Olympic gymnast take note--At least once at each practice. She still struggles mightily with her coordination but is so inspiring to her other teammates. Now new, new girls are on the team and surpassing her but she encourages and praises them while she practices pushing up to backbend (she has no upper shoulder arch and the stiffest spine known to man).
She is a beast at basing, has decent jumps with pointed toes and a straight back and can even break it down in the dance when she's not tripping over her own feet.

She is the definition of progress and she's not even a good level 1 tumbler. She makes this team better and it wouldn't be the same without her. I'd put her on my all star team (if she could do both) in a heartbeat just for the enthusiasm she brings to the floor.

THANK YOU. this is what i meant! she's definitely showing progress, even if it's not just tumbling.

 

[MyDaughterCheers]

That's not quite what I meant..if you read ALL of my posts I think it's easier to understand. Just taking that out of context w/o reading all of my other posts doesn't translate my feelings accurately.

I'm not trying to be offensive, and I have read all of your posts. Unless I am taking you completely wrong, I am under the impression that you feel that if a child can't or hasn't reached level 5 by a certain time, you would take them out of competitive cheering. I'm sorry, but that's what I've gotten from reading all of your posts.

 

[ohsnapitslex]

you only fail when you don not try!

 

[cheeringfor3]

If she stagnates at any point (for a lengthy period of time, not just a "mental block"), I suspect it will be bc she doesn't have the passion, dedication, drive, or commitment to want to continue in the sport (which is why I would pull her out), but I know it won't be due to lack of quality instruction.

Wow. So you are saying that a kid who does not progress from one level to the next in a short period of time is "stagnant" and "lacks drive". Well, I beg to differ. I think a kid who stays at it to progress, despite it not coming easily or taking more effort than other kids (which could mean two or more seasons at the same level) has an INCREDIBLE amount of drive and commitment.

In my case, I try to teach my kids to stick with what they love, give it their all, and that just because something doesn't come easily or quickly is NOT a reason to give up. I would never want to discourage my kids from working at something, if it something they love and WANT to work towards.

As I said in an earlier post, I know an incredible L5 tumbler who took 5 (or more) years to get a BHS. She clearly had the "passion, dedication, drive and commitment" to keep at it, and proved herself time and again. With your point of view, she would have been cheering rec and never gotten the opportunity to win the silver medal at Worlds that she won this year.

 

[SharkDad]

There are lots of analogies and examples specific to individuals and THEIR CPs. Each one is pretty specific and should be considered form the poster's POV.

Lots of posts are being taken out of context. No one has stated anywhere, including Courtney's original post, that any kid should be considered a failure if they do not progress.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

There are lots of analogies and examples specific to individuals and THEIR CPs. Each one is pretty specific and should be considered form the poster's POV.

Lots of posts are being taken out of context. No one has stated anywhere, including Courtney's original post, that any kid should be considered a failure if they do not progress.

Exactly! I know my daughter well enough to know the "why". That specific example I gave was regarding my CP, not someone else's. I'm guessing like most things people read over everything that they took personally and didn't read the part where I said I apologize if offended anyone and that I can see how they would have a different philosophy and I respected that...

Oh, and to answer another huge misconception...No I do NOT think it is a failure to never become a level 5 cheerleader. So again, no logical fallacy committed ;)

I do not think that one reaches a point in their lives where they are perfect in anything (some are damn near close) so I always think there is room for improvement...in this specific case, progression. My daughter is very young. If I did not see her progress after a certain period of time (and yes, I count ANYTHING cheer related as progression, higher jumps, better tumbling, sharper motions, better tumbling, better body positions, etc....) I would def. reevaluate things. Even editors make mistakes (I know bc I've caught some of them :p ). Does Jay Leno still do that "headlines" part of his show? Anyway, back to topic.....that's my specific case regarding my child. If I were dealing w/an older kid who was new to cheer, I would expect (personally) slower progression and certainly take that into consideration (as I believe I tried to already explain).

 

[ztaprincess]

I do not have a child but I feel like if I were a parent and my child was happy being a level 2 cheerleader the entire time he/she does all star cheer then my money would be well spent. If he/she is having fun and doing something they truly enjoy then I do not feel that is a waste of money AT ALL. My dad spent money like crazy when I was a kid on softball stuff because I wanted to play softball. I sucked big time and was the girl in the outfield picking flowers, but my dad continued to support me and cheer me on at games because he knew that even if I wasn't the star player I was having fun.

Also I do not think that if an athlete doesn't advance in levels over the years that they lack drive. When I took gymnastics from the time I was a kid until my junior year of high school and never advanced past a tuck. Did I lack drive? Heck no I didn't. I worked my butt of to get better at tumbling but also other things. I was perfectly happy with my tuck and never felt like I failed at anything. It is not the end of the world if an athlete doesn't get a full and is content with a backhandspring. At least they are getting off their butt and doing something instead of sitting in front of a TV all day. If having level 5 skills is the end all be all of cheer then maybe they should do away with Senior levels 1-4 since they should obviously have a full or double by that age. If anything I think those athletes that can't get past that backhandspring or tuck has more drive then those with level 5 skills because they are sticking with a sport they love even with the pressure to be on that worlds team.

 

[newcheerdad]

You know what, I think everyone's kinda made their points (pro and con) - not sure how much new ground we're going to break on this thread.

 

[BuegeSmalls]

I don't think that we should base tumbling just tumbling on progress. Maybe a girl started with an awful toe touch at the start of the season and by the end has hyper extended jumps, but she just can seem to master her standing tuck.
Or take a girl that has never flown before and by the end of the season she has a double down. That shows progress to me.

Tumbling wise I've prbly degressed over the years because of stupid mental block. Sure I can do those jumps to a tuck but i just can't seem to get that round off back handspring tuck. But I've become a much better stunter & jumper over the years, which shows progress
This is just my view on things(:

 

[CheermomCLT]

I agree that regardless of what level your Cp is they should show progress in some area of cheer each season. It shouldnt matter which area just somewhere. It could bebetter jumps, a better stunter or just in better physical shape. I would compare it to paying for private school. If i paid all that money each year and my child never got past the second grade i would questions where my money is going. You are paying for instruction not for your child to make friends. My personal opinion on tumbling is that parents play a huge role in how fast their Cp progresses. Is that parent pushing too hard? Are they signing them up for too many classes taking away the love of the sport? Are they always too critical of their Cp and what skills they have or what they look like? Are they always comparing them to another cheerleader or their siblings? All of these things influence the child and how much they want to put into the sport. It may not be that they lack drive and determination its that their parents live vicariously through them and those kids start to dread gong to the gym. Thats just my opinion. It seems like everyone takes everything so personal. No one is speaking about anyones child directly they are just stating their opinion. Sounds like there might be some of those parents who "live vicariously through their kids" on here...

 

[kaileymc]

She wasn't saying that if the child doesn't progress, the child is a failure. She said they, as coaches, feel like they failed at their job if they aren't able to help the athlete to progress.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

WOW. I tried really hard not to post in this thread. I think this is the first time since I joined here that I genuinely feel like I won't be able post without attacking someone personally, because I am so horrified and offended by a couple of things I've read on here. And a couple things I was just shocked that anyone actually thinks that way. So I'm just going to touch on one thing: there have been NUMEROUS posts in this thread stating that Courtney never said the CHILD is a failure for not progressing, but that the coaches and the gym are. Actually she did outright say it (and that's the point I stopped reading the other thread). I've quoted it below and the part I'm referring to is hot pink. Sorry, but I don't EVER want my children to think that if they don't move up a level EVERY YEAR they have "failed" their level (which despite the 6 pages of this thread that say no, no, no progressing means all kinds of things...the original post we are discussing very clearly said that that is what is expected and anything less is a "fail"). The other part that I bolded and made sort of teal left me too stunned to even reply. I'm sorry but that is possibly one of the most offensive things I've read/heard from a coach/owner/director...ever. Sorry, I won't be telling my daughter that she is silly, or "funny", for having the audacity to celebrate her silly little level 2 win again. Why on earth wouldn't you celebrate a win at your level? My daughter is level 2. That's what skills she has. She takes privates, takes classes, never misses practice. She's proud of her skills, and she loves cheering, but she isn't going to be a level 5. So because she actually "failed" and had to stay at the same level for a second year :rolleyes: she and her teammates are "funny" for celebrating when they win?
Wow...and I can't even comment about the (to steal my friend @Mamarazzi 's word) foolery I read on page 2 of this thread.

A section of Courtney's original post:
"If cheerleading were analogous to elementary school, and Level 2 was second grade, Level 3 was third grade...etc...the expectation would be to graduate from one level to the next each season. If we can't make that happen for an athlete and they summarily "fail" their grade and return back to the second grade ( repeat level 2 again )...we failed as their teachers. It is funny to me to see the celebration that exists on teams of athletes who have been level 2 for 3 or 4 years. To us, that is the equivalent of celebrating the same spelling test words for the 4th year in a row and being excited about knowing them. This is not meant to be offensive...just an analogy to see why we do have so many level 5 teams"

 

[kaileymc]

She put it in quotation marks.. Which I'm not taking as her saying the child is a failure but that they're just repeating the grade. She tried to put it in an analogy to make it easier to understand. I don't think she meant for people to think that she believes these kids are failures.

 

[gofriars610]

A section of Courtney's original post:
"If cheerleading were analogous to elementary school, and Level 2 was second grade, Level 3 was third grade...etc...the expectation would be to graduate from one level to the next each season. If we can't make that happen for an athlete and they summarily "fail" their grade and return back to the second grade ( repeat level 2 again )...we failed as their teachers. It is funny to me to see the celebration that exists on teams of athletes who have been level 2 for 3 or 4 years. To us, that is the equivalent of celebrating the same spelling test words for the 4th year in a row and being excited about knowing them. This is not meant to be offensive...just an analogy to see why we do have so many level 5 teams"

"the expectation would be to graduate from one level to the next each season. If we can't make that happen" ... "we failed as their teachers."

She did not say the student was a failure, nor was she blaming the student. She was blaming herself. She used the word fail to continue her analogy to elementary school. When you do not progress a grade, you fail the grade and repeat it. There is no other term for it. She was not calling the athlete a failure.
CEA sets the bar high for their athletes. The athletes are motivated, work hard and strive to meet the high expectations. I like that, and I wish I had been coached under a similar system in dance and other aspects of my life.

 

[newcheerdad]

As I said above - with all due respect to @Just-a-Mom, whose opinion I generally agree with - I'm not sure there's anything else productive that will come from this thread.

There are two distinct points of view with regards to Courtney's statement, and I'm willing to accept the premise that there is some over-analysis of her words going on. I think also we have to understand that comparing CEA to most all-star gyms is really comparing apples to oranges.

Rather than risk starting another heated exchange, maybe this thread is better off being locked?