All-Star Is It A Failure To Not Progress?

[lifeoftheparty]

I tend to agree with what xtremeteal is saying. I expect to see progress every year with my CP, but I don't necessarily measure progress by how close she is to lvl 5. Like has been mentioned previously it is a VERY expensive sport and I wouldn't sacrifice and go without if she wasn't getting something out of it. Not only socially (which I think is important), but physically I do expect progress. Last year was her first competitive year. I really wanted her to get a feel for the sport and competition. She excelled and was a flyer. She was level 1. This year she will prob be on level 1 again but has come so far. So I feel she had progressed and am very happy. I don't feel she failed because she will potentially be level 1 again. On the contrary the coaches did an AMAZING job coaching her and I look forward to seeing her progress this year. ETA by progress I don't only measure it by tumbling but all elements of cheer.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Did someone say they wanted their kid to cheer purely as a social activity? I sure didn't. My CP cheered because she loved the sport. The friends are a really great by-product!

Of course, I made great friends during my years in every sport I've played :) But what people seem to be saying (at least it's the vibe I'm getting-the summer heat is frying my brain!) is that the social/emotional aspect is more in line with what they're trying to get out of it. To which I say-that's not a problem if you're getting it, but cheer is an expensive way to go about obtaining those skills, and is an odd place to focus on them. The only reason why I mentioned it was because people appeared to keep bringing up the social aspects they're getting out of it, seemingly placing them almost on an equal level to 'loving' cheer/working skills. To me, instead of shelling out that money if they're not REALLY loving it, I'd put them in a class. That's just me though :)

Getting a social aspect? Fabulous. Making friends? Awesome. Don't discourage it at all. Just couldn't imagine paying x amount of dollars IF that was the ONLY/main focus, as opposed to a happy by-product. Appeared that the first two were more of a focus/desire from some peoples posts. Might be misinterpreting. (The abridged, hopefully less-convoluted version)

I hope this makes sense, my brain is getting mushed by the weather. Makes me sleepy :confused:

 

[MyDaughterCheers]

Is is just about the money to you? Why not suggest a non competitive, but similar sport to them at that point?

If the cheerleader is loving her sport but isn't level 5, why would you suggest she do something else?

 

[clyles]

From my understanding, if you come to your one practice a week and work really hard by the end of the season you will be at the correct level.

Going from level 2 tumbling to level 5 in a year is extremely hard. Especially at my age. :/

 

[Nothanks]

just a fun fact / food for thought, i know a girl who has a BEAUTIFUL full, but she CHOSE to be on senior 2 for her senior year, because that's the team her friends were on. she was offered a spot on a senior open 5 and didn't want it.

i think that's an awesome example of someone wanting to cheer just for a social activity. (she also paid for it herself, i believe, for what it's worth)

 

[ellen495]

I also think some people need to realize that not everyone has capability to be "great" and/or excel in this sport. Just as some people aren't meant to be in the top of their class academically. However, you are way more likely to get results from kids in either group with quality instruction and setting high standards than accepting mediocrity IMO. If that's not happening (your kid isn't learning, progressing, etc.) to meet those standards, then maybe one must re-evaluate their situation. I mean, you don't get numerous years to try to pass geometry in high school do you and that's a requirement! You have to master numerous new academic skills every single year! And before anyone says something about comparing the two again, let's remember that there are plenty of children who fare far worse academically than in sports. It's not their forte. Anyway, the point is if I'm paying for instruction of any kind and I don't see progression then either a)the instruction isn't meeting my child's needs or b)my child isn't meant to do this. There are plenty of other recreational activities you can choose for building confidence, self-esteem, etc. (including non competitive cheerleading) We chose competitive cheerleading over rec. cheerleading for a reason didn't we? If the goal isn't to be the best, then why would we (as parents) want to fork over thousands of dollars for our kid to compete in cheerleading at a level 2 for 10 years (which is probably closer to tens of thousands of dollars at that point), just so she can be the "best damn level 2 cheerleader she can be"? Seriously? While I agree with Kingston that everyone can't be a level 5 cheerleader and that there's nothing wrong with it, why continue to take someone's money for that long if you know they'll never progress? Is is just about the money to you? Why not suggest a non competitive, but similar sport to them at that point?

True - you need to pass geometry in one year. but some pass with an A and otherspass with a C.
You can progress a child from a 2 to a 3 in one year- sure - but are they progressing as an A student level 3 or a C student level 3? Some gyms prefer to have C students on their level 3 rather than leaving that student on level 2 as an A students - very personal about the gym - I see both sides.

One thing I haven't heard mentioned - if you start at level 1 and go each year until you're on level 5, where is there to go from there?

My cp is level 5 - she was j5 last year (barely with a full but needed on the team for her flying) and this year she has her full solid. But she doesn't have a double full. So I guess she's a B- level 5. Next year maybe she'll be a B+ or better. But until she's 17(I think) , she can't do level 6. So is she a failure each year now that she's level 5?

I do think some kids do the sport for fun - and that's not failure. There are some gyms that are better for kids who aren't pushing to the limit - and some gyms that are "the big leagues." Neither is better in general. One is better for MY kid. And one is better for YOUR kid. Make sure you know where your child will be happy and gain what s/he needs to be successful (whether success is measured as an accomplished athlete or "just" a happy person.)

 

[Diamond]

Lets say I was level 4 & just got my full, but I was a horrible base, jumper, flyer, dancer ect..I don't think I'd be "failing" level 4 if I stayed in level 4 another season and ended the season improving on other skills besides tumbling.

Level 5 is not the highest level. Athletes get to level 5 and stay for years without going to level 6. I know there isn't really a point for a junior who just aged out to learn level 6 skills, but many senior aged athletes (who want to cheer in college) never learn level 6 skills in all star. Most people are introduced to level 6 stunting when they get to college. I think it is possible to progress or "pass" if you're in the same level for more than one year.

 

[Justacoach]

Running with the school analogies - I'm all for pushing my kid academically to take the harder classes and struggle for top grades - BUT noone will be injured if she doesn't get it. She won't blow out her acl in geometry honors the way she can trying to throw doubles before she is ready. She won't elbow her backspot in the face in chemistry the way she could trying to kick double basket before she can execute a clean kick full.

 

[gofriars610]

True - you need to pass geometry in one year. but some pass with an A and otherspass with a C.
You can progress a child from a 2 to a 3 in one year- sure - but are they progressing as an A student level 3 or a C student level 3? Some gyms prefer to have C students on their level 3 rather than leaving that student on level 2 as an A students - very personal about the gym - I see both sides.

One thing I haven't heard mentioned - if you start at level 1 and go each year until you're on level 5, where is there to go from there?

My cp is level 5 - she was j5 last year (barely with a full but needed on the team for her flying) and this year she has her full solid. But she doesn't have a double full. So I guess she's a B- level 5. Next year maybe she'll be a B+ or better. But until she's 17(I think) , she can't do level 6. So is she a failure each year now that she's level 5?

I do think some kids do the sport for fun - and that's not failure. There are some gyms that are better for kids who aren't pushing to the limit - and some gyms that are "the big leagues." Neither is better in general. One is better for MY kid. And one is better for YOUR kid. Make sure you know where your child will be happy and gain what s/he needs to be successful (whether success is measured as an accomplished athlete or "just" a happy person.)

if your cp went from barely having a full to having a solid full that counts as progression...

 

[ORIGINALCheerkidzmom]

Wow....As a mommy of 3 retired Allstar Cheerleaders, I haven't been on the board as much as I have in months past and I have to say this thread was tintilating as well as heartbreaking at times. Couple of thoughts here that are rumbling through my brain....

A child that doesn't progress with cheerleading skills yearly is certainly NOT necessarily a child that lacks the drive, determination & passion for it. That coming from a mother that had a kid like that and yes we have done the year in-year out weekly privates, tumbling classes, speciality coaching, camps and a total gym rat!

Each parent is going to reason how, where and what they spend their money on. To be honest, if you are funneling your $$$ into your Allstar for a college scholarship, you might wanna take the $$$ and save it. Also, if I want to pay Allstar rates for social opps, its mine to spend..lol JMO.

It is a sad cheer society if we define our kid's success rate in AllStars if they attain level 5 teams and skills. I personally define my kids success rate in AllStars on how they handled the wins, the losses, the dissappointments & the emotional highs! After all, in life is he or she going to be doing level 5 skills in the workplace? the marriage? or the parenting futures of their lives?...more than likely not, BUT the other character traits gained in cheer, they WILL!

Lastly, cheer, the judging of their routines and even the judging of where each child should be is pretty much subjective and certainly NOT forgiving to kids that don't progress quickly. It IS a part of life and this sport though. How we handle these things as parents and coaches helps to determine their successfulness.

I close with the echoing memories of my Allstar kids....I realize I am JUST A mommy..but I think each of them are successful!

• Cheer daughter #1 cheered 7 years, started on a L5, ended on L5, 4 trips to Worlds, no medals, but lots of memories, cheered 1 yr in college and has recently realized that it is time to move on in life with school & career goals.
• Cheer son #1 cheered 6 years, started on a L4, ended on L5 with a 2 Worlds medals in his pocket, finished 1st year of college and is going to be coaching 2 Allstar teams this year while attending college.
• Cheer daughter #2 cheered 8 years, started on a Mini 1, ended on a SO5, no trips to Worlds other than to watch her brother and sister, stated a month ago, that she will always be a good cheerleader, but prob not a GREAT one. She retired from cheer this year and is playing Jr Olympic National VB currently.

 

[newcheerdad]

Here is what I mean by "false dichotomy".

The suggestion that I'm hearing from some quarters is that if your end goal is not to be a level 5 cheerleader, or you are not capable of being a level 5 cheerleader, then you shouldn't participate in all-star cheer. That's a false dilemma, because it implies that your choices are to either strive to compete an elite level, or not bother.

The choice isn't just to tell the kid to quit all-star cheer, and go cheer for a rec team or play the violin instead. Maybe it's finding an all-star program that caters to kids at lower levels, because maybe that kid loves cheer but just doesn't have the drive or ability to be elite. Because if we start taking the mindset that all-star cheer is only for kids that are uber-driven and talented enough to be level 5 cheerleaders, all that will do is shrink the sport.

Just like I've said in the past that not every program can be Top Gun or World Cup, not every kid's going to end up being on Senior Elite or Shooting Stars.

 

[cupieqt]

Braelyn walked into my gym last year to tryout for her high school squad. This child did NOT fit the mold of cheerleader but she busted her butt to learn the material and had such a positive attitude and eagerness to learn that she melted everyone into butter. She made the team based on sheer effort. She could barely walk and talk. Her attempt at a forward roll was the funniest thing I'd ever seen in my life. We started her with cartwheels by hopping over a rope.
Between Braelyns first practice in April of 2010 to the first practice of 2011 she has progressed to nailing a round off rebound that would make an Olympic gymnast take note--At least once at each practice. She still struggles mightily with her coordination but is so inspiring to her other teammates. Now new, new girls are on the team and surpassing her but she encourages and praises them while she practices pushing up to backbend (she has no upper shoulder arch and the stiffest spine known to man).
She is a beast at basing, has decent jumps with pointed toes and a straight back and can even break it down in the dance when she's not tripping over her own feet.

She is the definition of progress and she's not even a good level 1 tumbler. She makes this team better and it wouldn't be the same without her. I'd put her on my all star team (if she could do both) in a heartbeat just for the enthusiasm she brings to the floor.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Is is just about the money to you? Why not suggest a non competitive, but similar sport to them at that point?

If the cheerleader is loving her sport but isn't level 5, why would you suggest she do something else?

That's not quite what I meant..if you read ALL of my posts I think it's easier to understand. Just taking that out of context w/o reading all of my other posts doesn't translate my feelings accurately.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

just a fun fact / food for thought, i know a girl who has a BEAUTIFUL full, but she CHOSE to be on senior 2 for her senior year, because that's the team her friends were on. she was offered a spot on a senior open 5 and didn't want it.

i think that's an awesome example of someone wanting to cheer just for a social activity. (she also paid for it herself, i believe, for what it's worth)

IMO I think that does carry some worth. She chose to stay on a lower level merely for the social aspect, but paid for it herself...somewhat negating the issue of a parent paying for all the costs for their child to compete, plus she also has obviously progressed to a level 5..so that's not an issue either. Hers was a matter of choice (and fortunately her gym and family supported her in her decision) :)

 

[ufomom]

If a kid is having fun cheering at whatever level, then it is a worthwhile activitity. If a coach is feeling failure due to lack of progression, then good for them because it means they are trying to do their job and help kids be better. If a parent is feeling like no progress is representing failure (and the kid and coach are TRYING), maybe they need to step back and look deep within themselves and ask them if it is their problem they are unhappy with their kid's progress or is the kid unhappy. If the kid is unhappy, he/she will probably end up quitting because once you get to a certain age, cheer at any level is too hard to MAKE someone do. If it is the parent who is unhappy, find something else to worry about.:D

We are starting our 9th season. I saw "we" because I pay and drive and make the travel happen, so it is a huge commitment for me too. If cheer were to stop tomorrow, I'd think WOW, I would have time for myself and way more money. However, my kid is happy, she has achieved many of her goals progress-wise;) and even as much as I'd like to get off the train, it would be unfair at this point because I am the one that put her on the train years ago and have been driving the engine. I guess at this point, the cheerleader should be driving the demand to cheer. When they are little, it's usually the mom who starts it and keeps it going in the beginning. If a kid wants to quit after a few years and it is their decision, it is not a failure, it is a kid making a decision about the best use of their time and should be lauded.