All-Star Is It The Judges Fault That There Is No Change At The Top

[Mclovin]

South Elite actually won worlds in 2008 in the Large International Open All-Girl division

Oh! Well then, I guess they aren't a no name gym!! I had never heard of them before. Either way, they definitely were not a typical top 10 team in medium coed (large limited prior to 2012) and came out of nowhere and got a globe. :)

 

[GreatWhite92]

I always wondered what would happen if two gyms put out the same exact skills down to a t with maybe some different choreography and one team being a no name team and the other being a top gym and seeing if it effected the scoring in anyway. Of course you have well this team had better execution but what if the execution was somewhat the same.

 

[ImaDad]

Hmmm, I guess the responses stop when facts are given............................;)

This is honestly a fact that most fans don't understand, every routine is not the same!!! Just because you HIT yours, does not mean it will guarantee you a win, because it is based on the points of the routine (i.e. raw scores)

 

[cheergirlbrey]

I completely disagree with you here. The big gyms win because not only do they have to skill set to do so, they have the proper technique and are able to execute well. Because of that alone the "big names" are set ahead of everyone else.

I would also like to point out that this year unlike any other, because of the 10 to finals change, there were some "big names" that did not even make it to day two.

Agreed! And looks at the small names that made top 10! They are catching up and proving they can play with the "big names" a bit.

 

[ztaprincess]

The reason these big name gyms keep winning is because they have the skills as well as the ability to execute them so that the scoresheet awards them the proper points. Too many small gyms or gyms who are not regularly in the top teams were throwing fulls and doubles that while they were there they were done sloppy so they weren't being awarded the same points as the WC or TG team that threw the same skills better. This year it came down to who was the cleanest. Sure there were teams who placed in the top 3 with mistakes, but they had a clean routine other then those mistakes and the difficulty they had meant those mistakes impacted their score less. If teams went out there with tshirts and shorts while performing to the same music and throwing the same routine I think 95% of the time the same teams would have places in the top 3 or won.
People on twitter were arguing over Cali and Orange because Orange outscored Cali in tumbling. While Cali threw harder skills (IMO), Orange had cleaner skills thrown so they were awards more points. These big gyms didn't get where they were by having poorly thrown routines that while they hit were sloppy, they have perfected the technique that it takes to throw clean skills.

 

[Admin]

But teams like that did drop....
Again I am not trying to make this a discussion against gyms, teams, or athletes....
What I saying is could there be a corolation between the lack of new judges and the less then diverse nature of placements??

I say no however asking the judges would probably give you better answers.

I think for the most part, this weekends placements were accurate based on the performances given. Also a lot of "small names" were in the top 10, even in the top 5 in some divisions. These are the people who are clearly working to master the scoresheet.

Furthermore i will add, you mentioned that because south elite hit, they should have won. Would this be true for all divisions? If so, a lot of teams should have won worlds.

 

[Coach Troy]

Hmmm, I guess the responses stop when facts are given............................;)

This is honestly a fact that most fans don't understand, every routine is not the same!!! Just because you HIT yours, does not mean it will guarantee you a win, because it is based on the points of the routine (i.e. raw scores)

I am sorry but I understand the raw score aspect
but when you see team X get a 6 for thier high to high and team Y get a 9 and they are identical in difficulty and execution there is something wrong...
And that something IMO is that the current pool of judges award less on thier knowledge of skills and more on what they are used to seeing.

 

[Coach Troy]

I say no however asking the judges would probably give you better answers.

I think for the most part, this weekends placements were accurate based on the performances given. Also a lot of "small names" were in the top 10, even in the top 5 in some divisions. These are the people who are clearly working to master the scoresheet.

Furthermore i will add, you mentioned that because south elite hit, they should have won. Would this be true for all divisions? If so, a lot of teams should have won worlds.

I think I asked "should" they have won not that "they should" have won.

I am not arguing for or against any placements rather I am simply asking the question can we expect any diversity in placements if we have the same sets of eyes and the same opinions sitting in the same seats???

 

[Admin]

I am sorry but I understand the raw score aspect
but when you see team X get a 6 for thier high to high and team Y get a 9 and they are identical in difficulty and execution there is something wrong...
And that something IMO is that the current pool of judges award less on thier knowledge of skills and more on what they are used to seeing.

Perhaps YOU are seeing teams execute the same, when in fact their execution is very different.

 

[Admin]

I think I asked "should" they have won not that "they should" have won.

I am not arguing for or against any placements rather I am simply asking the question can we expect any diversity in placements if we have the same sets of eyes and the same opinions sitting in the same seats???

I love that you brought this team up.
They were amazing and so talented and HIT....so should they have won (?)they obviously had the execution and difficulty but just lacked the "name"....

they obviously did not have at least the difficulty as it is crystal clear in their scores.

I think the diversity will come when more gyms focus on really mastering the scoresheet.

Can we go back a few years to when Rockstar was in their i believe first year as a gym, took a team to worlds, and placed silver? Am i delusional? I am sure this happened.

 

[tucknduck]

I'd have liked to see the scores in the senior medium division. Day 2 of the finals was quite a dogfight and if i'm not mistaken, the top 4 teams were perfect and nailed their execution. Based on a lot of the predictions, it was clear who the top 3 were being picked in this division with basically no shot for nobody else. Without knowing the scores and being somewhat of a layman and having a favorite team in this division, I wonder a little if the judges have it preset in their minds who wins based on that if everyone hits their routine like the top 4 on day 2.. At the same time, we saw the scoring on day 1 and the standings were quite different because of the flaws in some of the routines so apparently, these teams with reputations are no automatic by any stretch.

One thing for certain is that in this division, you had to be on your game and weren't going to win with any mistakes. You had to be clean and the top teams in this division were that on day 2.

Now in the senior medium coed division, there's no way they should be awarding a gold medal with a major stunt fall. Worlds should be high-risk-high reward. You score high if you execute the difficult maneuver but should pay the price when it fails.

 

[Mclovin]

I get what you're saying. I'm just not sure if the problem is with the judges or with the subjectivity in the scoresheets. I believe our judges are capable, but ANYONE that has so much room for subjectivity on a scoresheet is going to be scoring what they "like" higher than what they don't like. I would much rather see reform in our scoresheets rather than unseat our judges.

 

[Coach Troy]

Hence my question...
If the judges only deem one persons execution as correct and they have had that opinion for multiple years and since the score sheet is designed to only allow the judges opinion of difficulty and execution to be the standard...

Can we ever expect, on a large scale, any change??

 

[Coach Troy]

they obviously did not have at least the difficulty as it is crystal clear in their scores.

I think the diversity will come when more gyms focus on really mastering the scoresheet.

Can we go back a few years to when Rockstar was in their i believe first year as a gym, took a team to worlds, and placed silver? Am i delusional? I am sure this happened.

Yep I said "should" as in a question...

There are small examples every year I guess I am asking more in a broader, big picture sense.

 

[Admin]

Yep I said "should" as in a question...

There are small examples every year I guess I am asking more in a broader, big picture sense.

yes you asked, but then carried on to say they just lacked the name to be able to do so.