All-Star Is This Legal?

[BlockHead]

Totally agree with you that sandbagging is unfair.

Now you're also starting a different discussion, is level 1 for beginners? When we first started cheer my then 6 yo was told she was welcome to join a team, I assumed it was because they thought she had good skills. (She had a killer cartwheel lol but not even a backbend.) Like in gymnastics, you're only asked to join the comp team if you have the right skills... Anyway, she ended up nuggeting A LOT. If I had known what I know now, I might have just had her do tumbling that season. She had some fun too though... :)

It's tough with level 1. There is a long way between a beginner and a veteran level 1 athlete. I wonder if any (maybe bigger) gyms turn away kids with no skills from level 1 teams and tell them to do a tumbling class first, or put them on prep if they have it?

This is the goal of my CP's gym this year, and I am kind of excited about it. My CP will be entering her 6th year as a level 1 (tumbling does not come easy to her at all). Our gym's goal next season is to only develop a level 1 team of kids that have all of their level 1 skills. And if you do not have all level 1 skills, you will be placed on prep. With all of the sandbagging that we see by local gyms, I do not believe that there is much of a choice. That is, unless our gym decided to go the sandbagging route. So glad my gym does not do that. Just because it is not illegal does not make it right.

My heart does hurt for the kids who have been cheering for years and have not maxed out their level 1 skills. They do not want to be on a prep team. Just keeping my fingers crossed that they get their skills in the next few weeks. Luckily my CP is maxed out on her level 1 skills. She would not be doing prep.

Our gym is doing the same for levels 2 and 3. Mixed reviews by all 3 levels. But I think it is a good thing overall.

 

[Boughetto]

This is the goal of my CP's gym this year, and I am kind of excited about it. My CP will be entering her 6th year as a level 1 (tumbling does not come easy to her at all). Our gym's goal next season is to only develop a level 1 team of kids that have all of their level 1 skills. And if you do not have all level 1 skills, you will be placed on prep. With all of the sandbagging that we see by local gyms, I do not believe that there is much of a choice. That is, unless our gym decided to go the sandbagging route. So glad my gym does not do that. Just because it is not illegal does not make it right.

My heart does hurt for the kids who have been cheering for years and have not maxed out their level 1 skills. They do not want to be on a prep team. Just keeping my fingers crossed that they get their skills in the next few weeks. Luckily my CP is maxed out on her level 1 skills. She would not be doing prep.

Our gym is doing the same for levels 2 and 3. Mixed reviews by all 3 levels. But I think it is a good thing overall.

This is really the only way to be competitive. Each athlete should have ALL the minimum skill level skills to be somewhat competitive. Having a few elite level appropriate skills is even better.

 

[cheerguy1]

Can a gym create a team that is made up 100% of athletes that are already on their level 2 and 3 teams and make this new team level 1? Are there rules against this?

Yes it's legal. They only time it wouldn't be is at a comp like summit where level 3 kids that competed level 3 at the summit could not cross down and compete on a level 1 team as a crossover.

 

[cheerguy1]

Also heard there was an R5 team that tossed in World team members to get a bid there.

There was a 4.2 team that tossed in worlds athletes to get a bid as well.

 

[Amy L]

I'm honestly not sure if there is a spot for true beginners anymore.

I agree. Around here, there aren't any gyms that have a level 1 team aside from minis. My daughter didn't start cheer until she was 12 and she was on a senior 4.2 team her first year and a junior 3 her second season.

She has maxed out her level 1 tumbling but is blocking on her BHS. If we had the correct levels she would have probably done prep last season, level 1 this year and probably been places on level 1 again this season because she can't throw her BHS anymore without a spot. She is probably going down to prep this year so she can do level 2 because it's the lowest level they have for her age. So it's frustrating for them too if they don't start when they're really little.

I would still kind of consider her a beginner btw, just not a complete newbie. She did not cheer or do gymnastics or dance or anything similar when she was little.

 

[Lablover]

In my experience, most children develop at their own pace. So it's not like an athlete will get all their level 2 standing tumbling, running tumbling and stunting at the same time. There is rarely a "true level" athlete that has all the skills in one level and with no skills in a higher level.

I use my daughter as an example. She's youth age. She stunts level 4, has a standing tuck (but is not competable at this point), no 2 bhs to tuck,but has running ro bhs full and combo level 4 running passes. So level 4 stunting, level 3 standing tumbling and high level 4-low level 5 running tumbling.

 

[meetmeat_themat]

This is the goal of my CP's gym this year, and I am kind of excited about it. My CP will be entering her 6th year as a level 1 (tumbling does not come easy to her at all). Our gym's goal next season is to only develop a level 1 team of kids that have all of their level 1 skills. And if you do not have all level 1 skills, you will be placed on prep. With all of the sandbagging that we see by local gyms, I do not believe that there is much of a choice. That is, unless our gym decided to go the sandbagging route. So glad my gym does not do that. Just because it is not illegal does not make it right.

My heart does hurt for the kids who have been cheering for years and have not maxed out their level 1 skills. They do not want to be on a prep team. Just keeping my fingers crossed that they get their skills in the next few weeks. Luckily my CP is maxed out on her level 1 skills. She would not be doing prep.

Our gym is doing the same for levels 2 and 3. Mixed reviews by all 3 levels. But I think it is a good thing overall.

I understand this may not work/90% sure isn't legal, but now in the UK BCA allow university teams to enter multiple stunt groups into the same level of the stunt group (stunting only with 4-5 girls) division. What would be the issue with having two level 1 teams (numbers limiting of course)? One team of seasoned level 1 athletes who have maxed out the skills but haven't got the level 2 skills yet and one 'development squad' of level 1s? Both could compete against each other and the development squad could be a feeder to the main squad?

I'm a coach but not a gym owner so take my (possibly naive) suggestion with a pinch of salt haha!

 

[cheer25mom]

I understand this may not work/90% sure isn't legal, but now in the UK BCA allow university teams to enter multiple stunt groups into the same level of the stunt group (stunting only with 4-5 girls) division. What would be the issue with having two level 1 teams (numbers limiting of course)? One team of seasoned level 1 athletes who have maxed out the skills but haven't got the level 2 skills yet and one 'development squad' of level 1s? Both could compete against each other and the development squad could be a feeder to the main squad?

I'm a coach but not a gym owner so take my (possibly naive) suggestion with a pinch of salt haha!

It;s 100% legal for all star. We have had 2 level 1 teams at our gym. Big gyms with multiple locations often have 2 teams in say, small J1.

 

[emo_wifey]

I understand this may not work/90% sure isn't legal, but now in the UK BCA allow university teams to enter multiple stunt groups into the same level of the stunt group (stunting only with 4-5 girls) division. What would be the issue with having two level 1 teams (numbers limiting of course)? One team of seasoned level 1 athletes who have maxed out the skills but haven't got the level 2 skills yet and one 'development squad' of level 1s? Both could compete against each other and the development squad could be a feeder to the main squad?

I'm a coach but not a gym owner so take my (possibly naive) suggestion with a pinch of salt haha!

I keep trying to figure out how to word how I feel about this without ranting or getting myself in trouble. This is not a fair situation for the feeder squad as you've described it.

 

[njallday]

I keep trying to figure out how to word how I feel about this without ranting or getting myself in trouble. This is not a fair situation for the feeder squad as you've described it.

If everyone knew up front and was cool with it, I guess it would be okay... but way to kill the lesser L1 teams' confidence by purposely setting them up for defeat every single competition. Defeat to the kids they see in the gym every day. They're working just as hard (if not harder to get new skills) as the other kids. that just seems cruel. Most of the big, multi-location gyms with two teams in the same division will tell you it is less than ideal having them compete against each other. Yes, they could have camaraderie and support each other (and I often see said gyms try to build that bond between the teams), but I would feel "less than" on the "worse" team.

I would only be okay with this if the two teams had different competition schedules, a lesser fee, etc. Which is essentially a prep team so then what is the point? Just have a prep team.

 

[emo_wifey]

If everyone knew up front and was cool with it, I guess it would be okay... but way to kill the lesser L1 teams' confidence by purposely setting them up for defeat every single competition. Defeat to the kids they see in the gym every day. They're working just as hard (if not harder to get new skills) as the other kids. that just seems cruel. Most of the big, multi-location gyms with two teams in the same division will tell you it is less than ideal having them compete against each other. Yes, they could have camaraderie and support each other (and I often see said gyms try to build that bond between the teams), but I would feel "less than" on the "worse" team.

I would only be okay with this if the two teams had different competition schedules, a lesser fee, etc. Which is essentially a prep team so then what is the point? Just have a prep team.

Exactly what I couldn't figure out how to say lol. CP is on the "worse" team, and it sucks sometimes. They didn't make the two teams this way on purpose though.

 

[luv2cheer92]

If everyone knew up front and was cool with it, I guess it would be okay... but way to kill the lesser L1 teams' confidence by purposely setting them up for defeat every single competition. Defeat to the kids they see in the gym every day. They're working just as hard (if not harder to get new skills) as the other kids. that just seems cruel. Most of the big, multi-location gyms with two teams in the same division will tell you it is less than ideal having them compete against each other. Yes, they could have camaraderie and support each other (and I often see said gyms try to build that bond between the teams), but I would feel "less than" on the "worse" team.

I would only be okay with this if the two teams had different competition schedules, a lesser fee, etc. Which is essentially a prep team so then what is the point? Just have a prep team.

One thing (of many things) I noticed at CA this season that I loved was that there were essentially 2 different comp schedules. And each "pair" of teams in the same division (so like small j3 and large j3, small s4 and large s4, etc) went to different comps, with the exception of a couple big ones where they would be split anyway.
ETA: This was just for Plano

 

[Nikki Moore]

There's another gym in our area that has 3 different locations and so they will sometimes have two different teams in the same division. For the most part they do not compete the same schedules but when they did I always found it very odd. Not that either was set up like this since they are different locations but I am pretty sure they are both going to Summit so that should be interesting.

IMO I don't think it'd be fair to set up a team to be the "lesser" team. What's the point of trying if you knew you'd always lose. Make them prep so they can actually compete against teams they stand a chance against.

 

[quitthedrama]

One thing (of many things) I noticed at CA this season that I loved was that there were essentially 2 different comp schedules. And each "pair" of teams in the same division (so like small j3 and large j3, small s4 and large s4, etc) went to different comps, with the exception of a couple big ones where they would be split anyway.
ETA: This was just for Plano

Speaking from a parent's perspective, that's all well and good unless you have siblings who have different comp schedules. Then it's just more time consuming and expensive. I have had that experience before and it is not fun and there is nothing to love about it!

 

[njallday]

One thing (of many things) I noticed at CA this season that I loved was that there were essentially 2 different comp schedules. And each "pair" of teams in the same division (so like small j3 and large j3, small s4 and large s4, etc) went to different comps, with the exception of a couple big ones where they would be split anyway.
ETA: This was just for Plano

CA also sets up all of their teams to be as successful as possible so I do not think they would ever say "Hey, we have 45 level 4 kids. Let's put the rock solid, every tumble skill necessary, best 26 kids on Large S4 and let's put the remaining 19 who have never stunted L4 in their lives and have never thrown these tumbling skills in a routine before on the Small S4. And hey, let's put them up against each other every weekend."

That's kind of the gist I got from the OP's idea. If there is purposely a weaker team, they should be in the prep division specifically so they can grow into their skills in a less harsh environment. I know "life's tough, get a helmet" and all that, but I still think setting kids up for failure is cruel.