All-Star Is This Legal?

[catlady]

IMO:

• Athletes level and team should be registered with the USASF at the beginning of the competition season (Sept- Oct) by their gym.
• Large gyms (non-D2) should only be allowed to have their athletes registered on one team (at the level/team the athlete was registered for) for World's, Summit, Cheersport, NCA, and UCA. If an injury occurs, they can provide documentation from the doctor allowing them to cross an athlete from another Summit/National team up or down 1 level staying within the 25%.
• Teams should not be allowed to drop levels prior to a large National or bid competition unless their team has a raw score of at least 3 points lower than their competition at 2 comps prior and competes at the lower level once prior to the National or bid competition.
• "Cross training" teams consisting of more than 2 registered levels can only be exhibition teams and can not compete for ANY awards or bids.
• Injured and blocking level 2-5 athletes may be put on a lower level team, including level 1 but, they must be locked into that level the entire, or remainder, of the year and not allowed to compete on any higher levels until the next season.

It's only my opinion but, I don't think parents aren't going to want to see their level 5 Suzie locked into a level 2, or want to pay additional crossover fees for multi-level "cross training" teams that can't win awards.

 

[123jump4!]

IMO:

• Athletes level and team should be registered with the USASF at the beginning of the competition season (Sept- Oct) by their gym.
• Large gyms (non-D2) should only be allowed to have their athletes registered on one team (at the level/team the athlete was registered for) for World's, Summit, Cheersport, NCA, and UCA. If an injury occurs, they can provide documentation from the doctor allowing them to cross an athlete from another Summit/National team up or down 1 level staying within the 25%.
• Teams should not be allowed to drop levels prior to a large National or bid competition unless their team has a raw score of at least 3 points lower than their competition at 2 comps prior and competes at the lower level once prior to the National or bid competition.
• "Cross training" teams consisting of more than 2 registered levels can only be exhibition teams and can not compete for ANY awards or bids.
• Injured and blocking level 2-5 athletes may be put on a lower level team, including level 1 but, they must be locked into that level the entire, or remainder, of the year and not allowed to compete on any higher levels until the next season.

It's only my opinion but, I don't think parents aren't going to want to see their level 5 Suzie locked into a level 2, or want to pay additional crossover fees for multi-level "cross training" teams that can't win awards.

I like your rules! Does anyone know if any new rules are being considered by the USASF to limit sandbagging/crossovers?

With your rules, in theory Sandbag Allstars could still put athletes with level 5 skills on a level 2 team. But they would only be allowed to compete on that team and not on any higher level at any point during the season, which should be a deterrant.

 

[Boughetto]

IMO:

• Athletes level and team should be registered with the USASF at the beginning of the competition season (Sept- Oct) by their gym.
• Large gyms (non-D2) should only be allowed to have their athletes registered on one team (at the level/team the athlete was registered for) for World's, Summit, Cheersport, NCA, and UCA. If an injury occurs, they can provide documentation from the doctor allowing them to cross an athlete from another Summit/National team up or down 1 level staying within the 25%.
• Teams should not be allowed to drop levels prior to a large National or bid competition unless their team has a raw score of at least 3 points lower than their competition at 2 comps prior and competes at the lower level once prior to the National or bid competition.
• "Cross training" teams consisting of more than 2 registered levels can only be exhibition teams and can not compete for ANY awards or bids.
• Injured and blocking level 2-5 athletes may be put on a lower level team, including level 1 but, they must be locked into that level the entire, or remainder, of the year and not allowed to compete on any higher levels until the next season.

It's only my opinion but, I don't think parents aren't going to want to see their level 5 Suzie locked into a level 2, or want to pay additional crossover fees for multi-level "cross training" teams that can't win awards.

I like your rules. Even though they seem pretty straight forward someone will find a way to "beat the system"! Plus who will enforce these rules and go back and check to ensure each athlete is in compliance?

 

[catlady]

I like your rules. Even though they seem pretty straight forward someone will find a way to "beat the system"! Plus who will enforce these rules and go back and check to ensure each athlete is in compliance?

You're right. Honestly though, I think most gyms actually comply with the rules, the rules just allow for too many loopholes.

 

[cheer25mom]

IMO:

• Athletes level and team should be registered with the USASF at the beginning of the competition season (Sept- Oct) by their gym.
• Large gyms (non-D2) should only be allowed to have their athletes registered on one team (at the level/team the athlete was registered for) for World's, Summit, Cheersport, NCA, and UCA. If an injury occurs, they can provide documentation from the doctor allowing them to cross an athlete from another Summit/National team up or down 1 level staying within the 25%.
• Teams should not be allowed to drop levels prior to a large National or bid competition unless their team has a raw score of at least 3 points lower than their competition at 2 comps prior and competes at the lower level once prior to the National or bid competition.
• "Cross training" teams consisting of more than 2 registered levels can only be exhibition teams and can not compete for ANY awards or bids.
• Injured and blocking level 2-5 athletes may be put on a lower level team, including level 1 but, they must be locked into that level the entire, or remainder, of the year and not allowed to compete on any higher levels until the next season.

It's only my opinion but, I don't think parents aren't going to want to see their level 5 Suzie locked into a level 2, or want to pay additional crossover fees for multi-level "cross training" teams that can't win awards.

I love this. I think ti would definitely go a long way towards fixing the issue!

 

[123jump4!]

It's easy to think "oh but when our gym does it, it's ok/necessary/whatever". An athlete from a higher level just started on CP's team as a replacement for someone who quit. CP is excited about it lol. But they could have asked a kid from a tumbling class, or got by with no replacement. (Or from a same level team but I don't think anyone is age eligible.)

 

[MyGirlCheers]

I think the simplest and possibly best sandbagging deterrent is to put the level on those coveted jackets. I would hope most level 5 Susies wouldn't want to walk around in an NCA level 2 champion jacket.

 

[Nikki Moore]

I think the simplest and possibly best sandbagging deterrent is to put the level on those coveted jackets. I would hope most level 5 Susies wouldn't want to walk around in an NCA level 2 champion jacket.

Not as big as getting a jacket, but one of the comps we went to last year gave out bows to the first place winners and also bows for grand champs. The Grand Champ bow had the level you won...

 

[Boughetto]

I think the simplest and possibly best sandbagging deterrent is to put the level on those coveted jackets. I would hope most level 5 Susies wouldn't want to walk around in an NCA level 2 champion jacket.

I'd agree and recommend for all comps that give out jackets and/or championship rings!!

Which comps besides NCA/Cheersport gives champion teams nice jackets? And of course those Summit rings need to state the level as well.

 

[cheer25mom]

It's easy to think "oh but when our gym does it, it's ok/necessary/whatever". An athlete from a higher level just started on CP's team as a replacement for someone who quit. CP is excited about it lol. But they could have asked a kid from a tumbling class, or got by with no replacement. (Or from a same level team but I don't think anyone is age eligible.)

Ask yourself this:
What is the most fair thing to the kids left after one quit
1. Bring in a beginner with NO stunt experience from a tumbling class and expect them to get it together ASAP on a team that is already full of new kids struggling to learn the world of cheer.
2. Rework an entire routine to take out that spot, with kids new to cheer.
3. Bring in someone with experience who can learn the spot quickly.

I don't care for stacking teams, but IMO a replacement for a child that has quit or is injured, particularly when comp season has started, should be someone who can easily learn the material quickly.

My level 2 CP who was in her 4th season of all stars stepped in for a child last year who quit a level 1 team over Christmas break. They competed the first weekend in Jan. She had 2 practices to learn the entire routine. A beginner from a tumbling class would have had no hope of doing that. Sometimes, a higher level fill in is needed for a unique situation. I think that's different than half the team being a higher level by design.

 

[123jump4!]

Ask yourself this:
What is the most fair thing to the kids left after one quit
1. Bring in a beginner with NO stunt experience from a tumbling class and expect them to get it together ASAP on a team that is already full of new kids struggling to learn the world of cheer.
2. Rework an entire routine to take out that spot, with kids new to cheer.
3. Bring in someone with experience who can learn the spot quickly.

I don't care for stacking teams, but IMO a replacement for a child that has quit or is injured, particularly when comp season has started, should be someone who can easily learn the material quickly.

My level 2 CP who was in her 4th season of all stars stepped in for a child last year who quit a level 1 team over Christmas break. They competed the first weekend in Jan. She had 2 practices to learn the entire routine. A beginner from a tumbling class would have had no hope of doing that. Sometimes, a higher level fill in is needed for a unique situation. I think that's different than half the team being a higher level by design.

I don't disagree but it would be a slippery slope to allow a higher level athlete because someone quit. What if half the team suddenly "quit" (got asked to leave). Maybe the answer is allow no more than say 3.

In our case I am grateful that CP has this kid on the team and not a beginner, of course! :)

 

[cheer25mom]

I don't disagree but it would be a slippery slope to allow a higher level athlete because someone quit. What if half the team suddenly "quit" (got asked to leave). Maybe the answer is allow no more than say 3.

In our case I am grateful that CP has this kid on the team and not a beginner, of course! :)

Asking half the team to leave would be too much of a hit to a gym's revenue stream for them to consider it just to sandbag a team. I like a percentage of the team. I think the rule should be that no more that say 20% of a team's roster can be replaced throughout the season. For a team of 20 that allows for 4 kids to quit or be injured. After that, your numbers would have to go down. That rule exists for some bid competitions, I think it should stand all season.

 

[123jump4!]

Asking half the team to leave would be too much of a hit to a gym's revenue stream for them to consider it just to sandbag a team. I like a percentage of the team. I think the rule should be that no more that say 20% of a team's roster can be replaced throughout the season. For a team of 20 that allows for 4 kids to quit or be injured. After that, your numbers would have to go down. That rule exists for some bid competitions, I think it should stand all season.

Yeah there needs to be some limits for sure.

As for half the team "quitting", haven't we read about this? A legit team manages to get a summit bid and is then replaced with higher level athletes. (And the other way around has happened too just to confuse us.)

 

[cheer25mom]

Yeah there needs to be some limits for sure.

As for half the team "quitting", haven't we read about this? A legit team manages to get a summit bid and is then replaced with higher level athletes. (And the other way around has happened too just to confuse us.)

At one point I know that someone made their team try out again for their summit spots, and that there are tryouts at certain gyms for summit spots because the bids were won with crossovers. If they institute a roster replacement limit (like worlds). This won't happen. As it is, its rare but it does bother me. I think you HAVE to allow gyms to replace athletes who quit or are injured with qualified fill ins but that there needs to be some limits placed on that to prevent abusing it.

 

[emo_wifey]

I'd agree and recommend for all comps that give out jackets and/or championship rings!!

Which comps besides NCA/Cheersport gives champion teams nice jackets? And of course those Summit rings need to state the level as well.

US Finals had jackets a couple of years ago. ASC gives jackets at every "nationals," CP has two identical jackets from her first year lol. Last year they changed the color for different events.

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