All-Star Isaf Worlds Divisions

[Belinda]

I understand and thank you. What you are missing is that what sideline cheerleading and competitive cheer looks like in the United States was stopped from being a sport. Lobbyied against. I’m not missing anything.

I know the history of our sport. This still doesn't have anything to do with my post. America doesn't have monopoly over cheerleading and needs to open their eyes to the rest of the world.

I would be interested to know worldwide, how many programs exist that practice on a dead mat and how many programs exist that that practice on a spring floor. Anyone know of a way to figure that out?
(It seems like if Varsity wants to grow the sport, they should be figuring out how to make sure teams have access to spring floors, since the events they run are held on spring floors...and they aren't cheap)

All of Europe except some UK clubs, are dead mats. (I'm 99% sure only the uk have spring floor, possibly Ireland too). I mean some clubs here in Sweden occasionally have access to gymnastics floor, but it's not common and we compete on dead mats so it doesn't do much. Honestly, so many clubs over here doesn't even practice on actual cheer mats, but on old tiny school gym mats, the red ones you know..

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[XtremeWpg]

I would be interested to know worldwide, how many programs exist that practice on a dead mat and how many programs exist that that practice on a spring floor. Anyone know of a way to figure that out?
(It seems like if Varsity wants to grow the sport, they should be figuring out how to make sure teams have access to spring floors, since the events they run are held on spring floors...and they aren't cheap)

We're half and half in Canada. We practice out of 2 facilities, one is a gymnastics centre where we have a 7 mat sprung floor, the other is a community centre with a 7 mat dead floor.

When/if we move to our own space, we will be full time on a sprung floor for all teams.

 

[DancerDude0118]

What is at the ICU is what all star cheerleading looks like in a lot of the world, especially Europe, that's what you're missing.

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Same in Asia, really, even at club level. Most competitions follow the same rules now, so it makes competing in neighbouring countries less troublesome.

I would be interested to know worldwide, how many programs exist that practice on a dead mat and how many programs exist that that practice on a spring floor. Anyone know of a way to figure that out?
(It seems like if Varsity wants to grow the sport, they should be figuring out how to make sure teams have access to spring floors, since the events they run are held on spring floors...and they aren't cheap)

I honestly can’t imagine many... or even any in Asia. Competitions don’t use sprung floors, so there’s absolutely no reason for gyms to have sprung floors (that’s if they can even afford it). Most gyms don’t even have the space to have a full-sized dead mat in their facility.

It is very much a struggle, but the passion is there, so they make it work somehow.

 

[quitthedrama]

I understand the hardships of many international teams. We stopped to eat on the way back to our resort Sunday night at Worlds and met the entire Rising Star team from England. They practice in a high school with no spring floor and the cost to get the team to Worlds was huge. They globed and their placement is so impressive particularly given their challenges.
I think however it is unfair to say there is no access to spring floors outside of the US. We know gymnasts from all over the globe practice on spring floor. There is a difference between "not available at all" and "not willing to invest". Olympic bobsled didn't lower it's standards because Jamaica and other countries didn't have practice facilities or proper equipment. I don't mind a division that has some restrictions for international teams that focuses on all aspects of the scoresheet, but I do mind the industry lowering skills and standards across the board and having that become standard which is what I saw from the NT division.

 

[UCFKnights07]

im 50/50 when it comes to NT division. I wont judge it to harshly given this was its first year. Do i think the NT can become and look stronger with every year though, absolutely.
i do think some gyms possibly scrambled to make a NT team for the heck of it though to up their chances of a worlds bid/placement this year. Im not criticizing them for doing so, but some teams i found really unpolished at worlds.
but i was quite impressed with some of the talent at least during the season of some of the NT teams coming out of canada.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

My only beef with NT was the weird rule that allows assisted tumbling to be thrown. Because it makes no sense. Assisted tumbling is tumbling.

But that's another thread for another day.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

On another note, I can tell you that the America v. Everyone Else gap is definitely closing.

Canadian teams were killing it.

Ex: I was really impressed by CHEERSPORT SMALLFIN SHARKS in LAG5 at Worlds.

It's hard to break into non IASF level 5 divisions and I see a lot of potential there.

 

[Knowcheering]

America doesn't have monopoly over cheerleading and needs to open their eyes to the rest of the world.

You're right, America doesn't have a monopoly over cheerleading, but they do have a monopoly over the World Championships that takes place in Florida every year. And Worlds would have never taken off or been as popular/well-attended by spectators as it currently is without the regular US club divisions.

Cheer isn't like other sports where Worlds is run by a truly int'l governing body and the location moves around the globe every year (that would be cool, but I don't see it happening). I see Worlds as more of a giant invitational hosted by the US where the rest of the world is invited to attend. I'm sorry you found my post arrogant, but it's a fact that Worlds was formed and remains popular/lucrative because of the regular club divisions. So when I see Worlds Finalists competing on a Monday night in a relatively empty arena because Worlds has gotten so out of hand with the number of divisions (mostly Int'l ones) that the competition couldn't possibly finish on a Sunday, it bothers me to an extent.

It seems like we may have different definitions of cheerleading. For some countries it's mostly stunts and chants. In the US, it's mostly stunts and tumbling, and that to me is the most athletic, sporty type of cheer we could have-- the type of cheer that sports fans around the world might be willing to take seriously and consider a sport. (What, exactly, is the point of chants and trying to lead on a crowd if you aren't on the sidelines of a sport like a football game or a basketball game? Why does this need to be a part of competition?) Not to sound arrogant again, but the version of All Star cheer that the US popularized seems like the one we should be encouraging around the world, not the one with chants, signs, props, no tumbling, etc. We should hope more countries eventually gain access to spring floors instead of accepting this as the norm for the sport. Very long ago, gymnasts competed on a dead mat too, but now every country has spring floors.

The non-tumbling division is like a gymnastics competition without a balance beam, a basketball game with no 3-point shots allowed... there's something incomplete about it. The fact that 4.2 teams threw routines together at the last second and ended up at Worlds was pretty telling as to the level of the division. When a division is brand new, it tends to be rough for the first year and then it improves, but still, put it at the Summit if you must, not Worlds (the problem there would be that countries won't want to come all the way to the US for Summit).

In gymnastics, several countries don't have access to a full vault runway, yet you don't see gymnastics removing the vault apparatus from the sport. A lot of countries don't have many ice skating rinks, yet they still find ways to participate in skating competitions and eventually build their own ice rinks (which is a heck of a lot more expensive than a spring floor). If tumbling is a part of cheer, countries will eventually adjust and seek out spring floors. I just don't see dumbing down the sport and adding excessive divisions helping cheerleading in the long run.

 

[kayemm]

I would be interested to know worldwide, how many programs exist that practice on a dead mat and how many programs exist that that practice on a spring floor. Anyone know of a way to figure that out?
(It seems like if Varsity wants to grow the sport, they should be figuring out how to make sure teams have access to spring floors, since the events they run are held on spring floors...and they aren't cheap)

More and more teams in the UK now are opening their own sprung floor facilities. Especially in Scotland the increase of this over the past three or four years has been huge and it's really helping the development of cheerleading. Not only can athletes train on the sprung floor regularly, we can also host more coaching or skills courses in proper facilities.
I think the increase in the number of teams we are sending to Worlds and Summit highlights the growth of cheerleading in this country - I think Rising Stars might be the only UK Worlds team that don't currently train regularly on a sprung floor? We still have a long way to go but things are getting there.

In the UK, the majority of routines do not feature a chant and follow the US allstar routine format. The majority of UK competitions are also on a sprung floor.

I don't see having international divisions and NT divisions as dumbing down - I think it's important that international teams are represented at a WORLD championship event. As mentioned previously, one of the key issues is that international bodies don't follow the same age grid as America. In a few years we might be able to field true senior teams but currently the majority include adults over the age of 18 as people often discover cheer later in their teenage years or through university. When I was at university I was one of only FIVE athletes who had previously competed in allstar. This was from 2008-2012 and while I was there no other former allstar cheerleaders joined. Many of the girls went on to cheer at allstar teams after university.
Until the rest of the world can realistically compete in the USASF divisions - and that includes fielding teams to match the age grid, then the IASF divisions are necessary.

 

[HeatUniqueJ]

I understand the hardships of many international teams. We stopped to eat on the way back to our resort Sunday night at Worlds and met the entire Rising Star team from England. They practice in a high school with no spring floor and the cost to get the team to Worlds was huge. They globed and their placement is so impressive particularly given their challenges.
I think however it is unfair to say there is no access to spring floors outside of the US. We know gymnasts from all over the globe practice on spring floor. There is a difference between "not available at all" and "not willing to invest". Olympic bobsled didn't lower it's standards because Jamaica and other countries didn't have practice facilities or proper equipment. I don't mind a division that has some restrictions for international teams that focuses on all aspects of the scoresheet, but I do mind the industry lowering skills and standards across the board and having that become standard which is what I saw from the NT division.

Well let me tell you
I am more than willing to invest into a spring Floor, but we have zero chance of storing it anywhere and we would have to put it up and tear it down again before and after every single practise
We share a Gym with pretty much any sport you can imagine
There is zero chance of finding an appropriate builiding in our area to open a Cheer Gym in, Germany has tons and tons of laws and restrictions, we can't just build a factory hall like most of these American Gyms and lay out a spring Floor. Additionally rent is close to impossible to afford for any builiding that would work as a Gym.

It is most certainly not about not being willing to Invest,its about not even having a chance to do so.

 

[cheermomforever]

im 50/50 when it comes to NT division. I wont judge it to harshly given this was its first year. Do i think the NT can become and look stronger with every year though, absolutely.
i do think some gyms possibly scrambled to make a NT team for the heck of it though to up their chances of a worlds bid/placement this year. Im not criticizing them for doing so, but some teams i found really unpolished at worlds.
but i was quite impressed with some of the talent at least during the season of some of the NT teams coming out of canada.

Don’t agree with competing in both regular and NT at same comp to c what bid u get.

 

[Belinda]

I don't think y'all truly do understand the hardships. You think you do, and you likely want to be understanding. But I'm not lying, and I'm not unfair to say these things because it's all true. Of course everyone wish they could be on the level of the us and turn cheer into a business! But generally we're all doing this volunteery! There's literally no money made, and what little may come in goes straight out to try and better the situation for everyone. We also share our hall with several sports, and schools, which means we take the mats in and out for each practice. There's also NO spring floor even in the close proximity of Sweden, JAMfest tried to get one when they first set up their comp here. But had to settle for a gymnastics floor flown in from another country.. Honestly not making this up. Now they just do dead mats.

Can we also clear up that not all gymnastics floor are spring floors(with actual metal springs). Some just have foam blocks and use the curve of the plywood to make it bouncy, so not even all of the world have access to actual spring floor for gymnastics. It's also pretty dang common for most gymnasts outside of the us/china/Russia to focus on one, maybe a couple of apparatuses. So the analogy of gymnastics without one of the apparatuses doesn't really work, because most gymnasts don't compete on them all, just how nt doesn't tumble but other divisions do.

Also, Finland has way more respect and is considered a sport by it's country way more than the US, and they do the chants.. So that won't make it less of a sport. It's not that we don't tumble at all! We do stunts, tumble, jumps, dance, just like an all star routine, we just add on a chant in the beginning.

 

[quitthedrama]

Well let me tell you
I am more than willing to invest into a spring Floor, but we have zero chance of storing it anywhere and we would have to put it up and tear it down again before and after every single practise
We share a Gym with pretty much any sport you can imagine
There is zero chance of finding an appropriate builiding in our area to open a Cheer Gym in, Germany has tons and tons of laws and restrictions, we can't just build a factory hall like most of these American Gyms and lay out a spring Floor. Additionally rent is close to impossible to afford for any builiding that would work as a Gym.

It is most certainly not about not being willing to Invest,its about not even having a chance to do so.

I didn't make my point very clear. I was referring to governing bodies/sponsors not willing to invest, not coaches, athletes and parents. Your Olympic gymnasts have standard facilities correct? They aren't working out in high schools on dead mat. I am hopeful that if cheer does become a recognized Olympic sport there will be more opportunity for other countries to have the proper resources.

 

[HeatUniqueJ]

I didn't make my point very clear. I was referring to governing bodies/sponsors not willing to invest, not coaches, athletes and parents. Your Olympic gymnasts have standard facilities correct? They aren't working out in high schools on dead mat. I am hopeful that if cheer does become a recognized Olympic sport there will be more opportunity for other countries to have the proper resources.

True, but that will only happen if we do adapt to the rules which as of right now means ICU Style Routines with less emphasis on tumbling.
In my opinion it is very unfortunate that Teams have to basically work on two different Routines if they want to compete in Europe and at Worlds,since we all use ICU Rules already.
Makes it much more complicated. And therefore the new Divisions make sense, at least for everyone outside the US

 

[caffeineandglitter]

Hey, if anyone wants MORE divisions at worlds, maybe there can be a dead-mat version of every single division with tumbling...

But seriously, this does remind me a lot of tennis. Tennis is played on multiple surfaces and there are four big events every year, the grand slams, which are played on different surfaces. The question of which surface is picked for the Olympic venues is usually a big deal; generally I think they go with what’s most popular in the host country. Would be cool to see an international dead mat championship that’s an open championship like worlds (not country vs country like ICU). Two yearly international championships, one dead mat, one spring floor. The olympics picks the surface based on the host country.

(In my fantasy world, the olympics makes cheer crazy popular and now all programs magically have tons of money. Varsity makes it rain with spring floors internationally. Airlines donate flights to cheer teams. all the deserving coaches get raises (or In some cases, get paid finally!). Someone invents teleportation so no one has to drive hours to practice. Etc.)