Jr. teams at worlds

[SharkDad]

It's ok to state opinions about how things can be better, but just like the rules suggest, please try not to point specific gyms or athletes out. There is nothing positive about that.

You're both missing my point. You can make a valid opinion and start a discussion without specifically badmouthing a program, team, individual, or division.

I can say "I disagree with some people's opinions" on the board and start an open discussion about why I think that and others will agree or disagree with the points I make.

That sounds very different than saying "F&I004 doesn't belong on the boards" or "RealTalk25 sucks and should never have logged on"

I don't like to use names as examples, but I hope you can tell that when your name is being used it stings a little and really doesn't do anything for or against my argument. You both are eligible to post outside of Newbies now. Good luck and happy posting!

 

[King]

So, I'm gonna be nice. It's the newbies section, and you are obviously a newbie.

The Olympics have plenty of competitors that have no chance of winning. When you see that country with one athlete going to the winter Olympics from Africa you know they have no chance, but that isn't the point.

To some winning is getting 1st. To some winning is placing top 5. And to some winning is just getting the chance to compete. If you qualify. If you get a bid, you deserve to be there.

Special needs teams are also important to this sport. I personally don't have what it takes to work with those teams. It would be very hard for me. So when I see others do it I am extremely appreciative of what they do. Highlighting them at Worlds is a great thing. And if it ever grows too big and takes up too much time at Worlds then that can only be an amazing thing.

 

[cheerislove8]

When I heard about special needs teams going to worlds I was so excited. Those kids absolutely no doubt in my mind deserve to go show off their skills at worlds in front of that huge audience. For most of those kids, they may dream to be an all star cheerleader, throwing people in the air and doing cool flips. However they clearly can't go try out for a level 5 team and go to worlds. Those routines the kids put on inspire so many people including myself. I can't watch a routine without tearing up. I think it is amazing what those coaches do for them and the oppurtunities they give them. They absolutely deserve the recognition.

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[Mom Jeans]

I love having Special Needs team at Worlds, it wouldn't be the same if they weren't there.

 

[coach.elle]

worlds should be something to look forward. If a girl wins gold when she is 9 years old, whats left?

 

[King]

Tara Lapinski. Nuff said.

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[RealTalk25]

Okay, I can understand that.. I apologize to those programs for calling their names out.

You do make a valid point about some teams at the olympics, however, those teams meet the standards in their countries.. they ARE the best of the best in their countries.. The American teams at Worlds should be the best of the best.. Some level 7 gymnast isn't going to just walk onto the US olympic team.. maybe if she was in a different country, where she was the best, but not here.. I think it's safe to say that if the only way you get a bid is because you got bid passed down to you because 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place at your competition already got their bids, or because you went to some random competition and didn't compete against any one, then you can't be considered the best.. Sure those teams did get bids, but maybe, instead of thinking of Worlds as a business (just like Nationals, where anyone can go because more teams means more cash flow), the cheerleading world needs to think of it as an actual world competition with the best of the best.. Why do football teams that only get 2 wins in their entire season get the boot for playoffs? Because they aren't strong enough to compete for a spot in the super bowl.. it's a given.. I think that the bid process needs to be more stringent.. No passing bids down. Score requirements.. Requirements for the number of teams that compete in that bid comp.. Nationals have NO meaning anymore because everyone just goes so that they can pick up their bids.. If bid process was was more stringent, maybe teams would actually place some meaning on the nationals they choose, and not just go to random "nationals" because they are giving out a bid.

 

[ACEDAD]

My opinions:

1. Juniors shouldn't compete at Worlds because it should be reserved for the senior teams.
2. Juniors work hard as do most of the other teams in any gym. Doesn't have an impact on whether they should compete at Worlds.
3. Special needs teams don't compete at Worlds. They are exhibition teams. They are there strictly to help show other gyms what can be accomplished and to help promote the growth of the division. If it helps: even the Super Bowl has a halftime show.
4. Junior teams not being at Worlds really isn't about "if they win at age x what do they have to look forward to?" The same could be said of NCA or Cheersport, etc. now or for years in the past. What do they have? A chance to win again the next year. The true competitive spirit typically doesn't die after one win.
5. Until someone can come up with a solution of how event producers can award bids that they are contractually obligated to award and guarantee no "passing" down of bids, then it will continue to happen. Anyone in favor of forcing teams to stop competing after winning a bid? Didn't think so.

 

[cheerislove8]

RealTalk... I understand what you are saying 100%. It all makes sense, but if it's ever going to happen like that, it's going to take a few years.

You also mentioned something about a score requirement to even obtain a bid... if a universal scoresheet ever comes into play, then that is an awesome suggestion. As of now, it probably wouldn't be fair with 1 million and 1 different companies each using a different scoresheet.

 

[King]

Worlds is the best of the best. They are the top level teams competing in those divisions. I am not sure how many teams you would like competing in each division so that you feel it is just the cream of the crop. Part of what makes Worlds 'Worlds' is that 70+ teams go in small senior (and small small) and it takes all day for them to compete and get down to the top half. How do you stand out in such a large field when you all have the same music guy, share choreographers, only have so many ways to enter into a stunt, how many times can you hair whip and shimmy your way to get noticed? If Little Sally Allstars gets a bid in the middle of Egypt, USA and is the best team from that region to get a paid bid, then it makes absolute sense they go to Worlds. And having more of those teams just makes it tougher to win.

The thing I would like is more teams in all the large divisions (I won't start on my 30 rant).

And I do disagree with ACEDAD on one thing, if you accomplish the pinnacle of something at a young age the drive to repeat that accomplishment tends to be markedly less than accomplishing the goal in the first place. In all things in life you are either growing or dying (there is no maintaining) so the push and the drive to go just as hard to meet the same goal again is not something most people would do.

(this accomplishment might not be to win worlds, it may be just to compete, or throw your double, or nail that fullup, or be cat haley and do 700 standing fulls in a minute... it all depends on the person)

 

[F&I0044]

Kingston- I understand what you are saying about the 70 teams, but if teams #50 through #70 are terrible (and yes, there are some terrible level 5 teams), and have no shot, then why should they be invited to compete at the most difficult competition in the nation? Well, for one.. more money for USASF- but thats another post.

Lets go with your LSAS (Little Sally All Stars) bit. If you go to a competition in texas, you are fighting against a plethora of great teams that are the top contenders at worlds- meaning its quite hard to get a bid. So, tell me why LSAS should get a bid just because they are in some remote part of the country with zero good teams? Sorry, if little sally all stars do not have the skills needed to compete, then no, they shouldn't be allowed to go.

Additionally, since the topic of gymnastics was brought up a few posts ago, lets discuss. And since I'm not sure how much you (or anyone else reading this post) know about how to get a bid to nationals at the elite level in gymnastics- i'll highlight the process. Yes, you do need to compete at a competition with a specified number of athletes. Furthermore, you also need to meet a qualifying score, otherwise you don't get a bid. The goal of Visa's (which is what the nationals of gymnastics is called), isn't supposed to be high in numbers. Some years there's 45 elites, last year, there was around 20. Just because you add 100 gymnasts to the lineup, doesn't make Visa's more prestigious. It seems now that ANYONE can get a bid to worlds. Should March Madness add another 40 teams to the bracket so that its more prestigious to win? No. Part of the "win" is getting there. Worlds has watered that down to the point where everyone and their mother can get a bid. That is the problem.

 

[SharkDad]

Good examples. Keep in mind that when teams get their bid, they seldom do so by being terrible. Even the best teams have bad days. Sometimes, that happens on day one of Worlds, especially if it is LSAS's first time attending and they have never seen that level of pressure.

So having a terrible performance at worlds does not mean that team is terrible, it may in fact be a valuable learning experience for a young program. IMO you should give credit to any group of kids that earned the right to show up and applaud them for trying if it didn't go so well.

 

[Nothanks]

I think it's safe to say that if the only way you get a bid is because you got bid passed down to you because 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place at your competition already got their bids, or because you went to some random competition and didn't compete against any one, then you can't be considered the best.. .

I agree with that 110%. Teams that only qualify by default because there was no one else in the division shouldn't earn a bid. I know when a team is competing against themselves they have to beat a predetermined score to technically "win," and I would assume that there is some set score like that for bids as well, but when you get into the scenario that teams will qualify by default, the score to beat should be significantly higher. With the new "If there are x number of teams in your division and you earn an at-large bid, you have to compete in trials", by making the score to beat higher, it would eliminate some of the teams traveling all that way to not even make it into pre-lims, and it would open up more time, eliminating the problem that has arisen with having so many teams, they're now forced to cut down divisions and eliminated juniors.

that being said, I know that there was more reason in eliminating juniors. As much as I LOVE watching the Junior 5 division, I know taking a J5 team to worlds can be tough on a coach. They become responsible for so many athletes during Worlds, and having to keep tabs on 9, 10, 11 & 12 year old kids at disney world can be tiring (not to mention the other 1 - 4 teams that gym may have brought...even though kids come with parents, coaches still maintain a degree of responsibility over them).
It also affects the parents too--if your son or daughter is on a J5 team as young as 9 years old, how many years are you going to have to shell out the money for worlds?
It also makes it easier on senior teams because at 12, 13, 14 you can compete at both Jr & Sr levels...so by not allowing them to compete as juniors, it makes the team less stressed about figuring out who's going to sub in for what team.

sorry for the novel. :)

 

[MichelleHallman]

World's was originally a senior event then they decided to add juniors but now they took them out again.

 

[Brooks44]

I agree with the decision not to have juniors
but i will miss seeing WC Starlites & Supercells.
They blew my mind every year.
&& sadly WC Starlites would most likely of won in coed this year :/