All-Star Just Read The Link Given For Icc/ice....

[AshleyErin]

Canada has a sex offender registry, but it's not available to the public... I don't understand that at all

 

[cupieqt]

We just got an updated Do Not Hire list from USAG about two weeks ago.
The one guy from Louisiana that we knew of was on there. He's a convicted sex offender so he's definitely had to register as one in the state. I imagine if they're convicted they can be on that list with no legal ramifications. Working in the gymnastics or cheer industry requires you to work with or around minors so we should have a list also. I'm NOT in favor of a list of people that haven't been convicted of anything but a list of those that have would be a good start.

 

[King]

It is not our job to be police. Or start reporting every time we see a violation of crime.

 

[Aussiekat]

Canada has a sex offender registry, but it's not available to the public... I don't understand that at all

Because of vigilantes who don't respect the law, and also the idea that our modern democratic societies rely on our legal system and prisons to provide a rehabilitative public service to correct deviant behaviour. You do your time for your crime and, for most criminal records, no one needs to know what your criminal past is except those directly influenced -such as your employers- which means gym owners. Your neighbours and society supposedly don't need to know what you have done if you have sufficiently served the sentence imposed by the courts because, by virtue of serving your sentence, you're "fixed". By telling everyone where the sexual offenders are living and who they are, you are by extension undermining the authority of the justice system by saying that they haven't actually managed to "fix" the deviants and it compromises the integrity of the system as a whole. Or at least that's the theory in a very, extremely basic sense. And I'm in no way implying that it's perfect because it is flawed, but overall I'm reasonably satisfied with this sort of justice system over any other on offer. Yes, it's important to keep your kids safe and yourself safe, and to have as much information as possible to do so, but I'm hesitant to open up doors that can have unintended consequences that could infringe upon my future civil liberties, which is the assumption I'm making on why some countries choose not to make criminal records public, or tattoo the forehead of offenders.

That being said, whether or not I have a quantifiable personal opinion either way on whether sex-offender registries should be public is another matter –partially dependent on the examples given by people above that show varying degrees of "wrongness". I probably live near a whole lot of people who urinate in public and have had to register as sex offenders, that's far more likely than them all being crazypants paedophiles, but most applications/software that tell you where sex offenders live don't say "this dude is really bad but that one is only mildly offensive".

As much as I don't endorse any form of victim blaming, I really feel there needs to be some degree of responsibility taken by parents and gym owners to ensure that the kids are safe, in all aspects of the gym. There's been too much evidence to the contrary that people in positions of authority, and ones we believe to be morally "good" turn out to be very, very sick individuals.

 

[cupieqt]

OK...I'll answer this because I really don't care, as I'm not affiliated with any of these people. What else happened? the same thing. Again. With a different adult and another minor. Ew.

I just finished catching up on this thread and I have to say that the :eek: face was never more appropriate. Really?!


I mean......REALLY??? Those poor kids.

I'm starting to wonder if the next televised special about Cheerleading is going to be an "expose" featuring these young victims all grown up and ready to talk.

 

[ACEDAD]

We just got an updated Do Not Hire list from USAG about two weeks ago.
The one guy from Louisiana that we knew of was on there. He's a convicted sex offender so he's definitely had to register as one in the state. I imagine if they're convicted they can be on that list with no legal ramifications. Working in the gymnastics or cheer industry requires you to work with or around minors so we should have a list also. I'm NOT in favor of a list of people that haven't been convicted of anything but a list of those that have would be a good start.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

 

[Angelica]

If it isn't my business, I wouldn't even bring it up....
Just saying.

 

[Sp1derP1g1230]

So does this mean that the pictures on Facebook of coaches and athletes partying - that anyone who sees them will end up on a list?

I need to start that I didn't mean by post to be rude. It was, and I'm sorry for that. I'm not in favor of lists being created when someone hasn't been convicted of a crime. I think they could be well intended, but could go really wrong. If they get really out of hand I could see someone in your situation just being in the same room ending up on the list. If you take it several steps further people being in posession of pictures could be in trouble. I think there is a thin line between parents being informed and an individuals civil liberties.

I'm not sure what's the right thing for you to do when you are put in the situation you were. I don't think you should have called the police. It sounded strange to me that you witnessed illegal activities and contacted a guy sitting in an office somewhere. I think you were put in a very difficult situation, and don't know what you should have done.

I think you should be careful about you post you are aware of or witness to on a public forum. God forbid something happens involving an athlete you could get hung out to dry. The mob mentality can be a scary thing.

 

[KikiD22]

(Edited to remove quote.)

I absolutely believe that gym owners have an obligation to contact previous employers. Unfortunately, in most cases, previous employers won't provide more information than dates of hire and termination. Because of the legal implications of providing more, I practice this myself, as an HR Manager.

In all honesty, @FamousRudags my comment regarding going public with information was not directed at you, since I am fairly confident, having spoken with you in the past and knowing of recent events, that you and the program you work for show due diligence in hiring, reporting, etc. You're also saying that you're not sharing that information publicly in any other way due to fears of repercussions for your program. That's understandable.

However, the person I responded to, @mollymags commented that she warns friends and family to stay away from specific programs in the area. If she has enough confidence in the validity of her information to warn others about specific Chicago-area programs, and potentially steer customers away from those programs, wouldn't it be fair to share that information with the rest of us consumers as well? And, if that information isn't completely reliable, then why is it being shared with others in the first place?

 

[laughAlittle]

If it isn't my business, I wouldn't even bring it up....
Just saying.

have you ever seen the show "what would you do?". sometimes you gotta step in when it's not your business for the sake of someone's life, humanity, or plain morals. we cannot play victim to the bystander effect.

 

[Angelica]

have you ever seen the show "what would you do?". sometimes you gotta step in when it's not your business for the sake of someone's life, humanity, or plain morals. we cannot play victim to the bystander effect.

Actually no I haven't seen that show. But I'll def take up on that offer and watch it ! & my post wasn't directed towards you, I'm just saying IMO If it's not my business, (like "problem", never in my life would I want to own a business) meaning Im going to stay out of it. But everyones obligated to their opinions.

 

[drewpate]

Threads like this really make me scared for my job sometimes..... I know that as a male coach I do know that I have the responsibility too make sure that I do my best to protect myself from false allegations. I believe the parents have a responsibility to protect their kids from actual incidents.... the cool thing is, if both the parent and coach are doing their jobs, the coach never ends up alone and unsupervised with a child.

At a competition, if I see one of my kids in the hotel or another place, I'll say hey but always head towards the direction of other adults. I try to keep one hundred percent of communication through the parents, and if my older ones need to let me know that they're missing practice or won't make it to a private, I always communicate through texting. I've never once taken a phone call from a kid on my personal phone. (Record keeping purposes mainly, hard to get into a he said she said when you have it there in black and white) The one time I've ever given a kid a ride I made sure to have a female adult in the car with me.

And I don't pee in public....... often haha jk

These little items of due diligence I've found are the best protection for yourself as a coach. However, I would like to see security cameras in every corner of every gym in the country, however that is also a double edged sword. Say for instance, a (lets assume for the sake of argument its false) allegation comes up. It goes to court, and while there is no actual inappropriate behavior on tape, the prosecutor spins it to where the way I was spotting Suzy was inappropriate, or that when I caught her from falling on that tic-toc her mom has been wanting her to get forever now that I might have touched areas I shouldn't have more than once, or that since I commonly backspot suzy when her's doesn't show up I am always touching her butt. It could potentially end up harming the innocent coach's case, but I still think its worth it for everyone's protection, especially after reading the ICE/ICC documents.

I also love that everyone just really wants to protect the children from these disgusting individuals, better everyone should remember that our justice system is based on the theory that it is better for one hundred guilty men to walk free than it is for an innocent one to suffer. (Not that I see that actually happening in reality, I think we have a much higher percentage of innocence [or at least products of unfair trials] in jail than is ever acceptable) Everyone loves a good witch hunt, but the protection from criminal prosecution with no actual evidence is what keeps our government from taking total control. While it might have let OJ and casey Anthony slip by, it ensures a free non-police state country for us.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

:eek: I agree with everyone else that the parents have to step up and not allow their children to be put in this situation. You would think that coming from a gym that had this happen just a few years prior that the parents would have wised up and stopped letting their children be alone with coaches or the owner.

I know nothing of the case being dicussed here but several years ago we discussed parents continuing to take their kids to a gym where this happened after the OWNER was convicted. He "withdrew" from the gym but was still seen actively with his teams at competitions. It was disgusting to think that parents would not only take that chance with their own kids but also put mine in jeopardy by being at a competion with them. I think we were finally able to convince the EPs not to allow him to have coaching credentials but that was about all.

Bottom line, the parents have the control in this. If there is any suspicion then LEAVE. A gym can't operate without paying customers. I don't care if it is the best gym in the country...just leave!

 

[mybabywantstotumble]

@drewpate and other male coaches, it must be terrifying to be working with so many young children of the opposite sex and wondering if one day an accusation that is false might come up and ruin your career and even your life. this is scary stuff and i think it's great that you set parameters to avoid being caught up in a situation!

 

[Rudags]

As a gay coach - even I feel awkward if I accidentally touch something I shouldn't while spotting. I can't imagine how a straight coach feels.