All-Star Let's Discuss Worlds Scoring

[GreatWhite92]

It also begs the question: if you are in the first third do you even go?


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After my experience, unless you are a bigger name that the judges will know to look out for.....no.

 

[katstat1]

I completely agree with you. Now can you find arguable examples that could have been in the top 10 realistically? This will help our discussion.

I am certainly not the best one to judge teams. I will watch a few though and see if I can find some good possibilities. There were a lot of good teams in this division though so I'm sure I can find some that hit that might have gotten looked over since they went too early. I did watch Desert Storm Elite Rage and they looked pretty good. They went right after Brandon so maybe that hurt them? I also don't want to bash any teams that did make it to finals, but not sure some had as much difficulty to place top 10?

 

[ashscott41]

I completely agree with you. Now can you find arguable examples that could have been in the top 10 realistically? This will help our discussion.

Cause at the moment if you got a bum pull from the Ping Pong balls it is pre-determining how high you can finish outside of a few peak teams.

I think Prime Tyme Nighthawks are a decent example. They competed as #18 in small coed semis, had two minor mistakes, and finished 11th, missing finals by 0.5. Power small coed could also be looked at. They were #5 in semis since they were not paid but finished 14th (less than 4 points out of finals). If they had gone later (or hit), it seems they may have had a slight boost in score and made finals. Neither of them were winning caliber routines, but possibly top 10 worthy IMO


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[viralscorp]

King It would be interesting to find the 'threshold' division size (at NCA, at least), since the correlation was so strong on Day 2 and 0 on day 1 in the small division you referenced.

 

[Mom Jeans]

About a month ago I made a comment in one of the worlds prediction threads about having Nate Silver do large senior predictions. I think it went over the head of most people and some thought it was a joke, but for me it was an actual dream that will never come true :( #nerdprobs


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Every time Nate Silver is on tv I tell my daughter oh look its your husband LOL

 

[Mom Jeans]

huh...and everyone jumped on me back in 2011 when I was really upset that we picked first in small senior. Many prediction threads had us going all the way to finals (back when they took 25 in small senior)..We didn't even make it past prelims, granted we had one mistake in the pyramid and again they took 25 to semis back then. Oh well I am over it now, but so many people tried to tell me that it was not an advantage whatsoever to go later that you had to just be good. Well i guarantee you going first is a disadvantage at worlds. Many teams we were beating throughout the year scored higher than us later in the day. This thread is finally giving me some closure. :rolleyes:

me too we were 3rd up

 

[callmecoach]

My brain definitely doesn't work this way so I just thought I'd let you all know I appreciate that yours do. So interesting to read this discussion and see those graphs display factually what we all assumed (going later gives you a better chance of advancing/winning).

Carry on :)

 

[GreatWhite92]

I'd like to see something from cheersport where the order is random both days and the division size is considerably smaller. Like if it goes up day 1, does it go down day 2 since it is in reverse order?

 

[xo sarah]

I've collected some scoresheets I've found online, and figured I'd post them all in one place for those who want to see them or are looking for them:

Small Senior Finals

Medium Senior Semi Finals

Medium Senior Finals

Medium Senior Coed Semi Finals

Large Senior Semi Finals

Large Senior Finals

Large Senior Coed Semi Finals

Large Senior Coed Finals

International Open 5 US Trials

International Open 5 Finals

International Open Coed 5 Finals

 

[cheeromgbre]

I am certainly not the best one to judge teams. I will watch a few though and see if I can find some good possibilities. There were a lot of good teams in this division though so I'm sure I can find some that hit that might have gotten looked over since they went too early. I did watch Desert Storm Elite Rage and they looked pretty good. They went right after Brandon so maybe that hurt them? I also don't want to bash any teams that did make it to finals, but not sure some had as much difficulty to place top 10?

I was shocked at how low their score was. I thought they were great and saw no obvious mistakes.

 

[xo sarah]

Small Senior Coed Finals

 

[xtremeteal4life]

About a month ago I made a comment in one of the worlds prediction threads about having Nate Silver do large senior predictions. I think it went over the head of most people and some thought it was a joke, but for me it was an actual dream that will never come true :( #nerdprobs


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I remember it!! I think I shimmied it then too! :cool:

 

[King]

King It would be interesting to find the 'threshold' division size (at NCA, at least), since the correlation was so strong on Day 2 and 0 on day 1 in the small division you referenced.

You mean when does the division size start to change how the judges scores?

 

[King]

I would say try and ignore scores and the Ping Pong effect for any division which competes in reverse order. It is only when the teams are placed randomly that you can really determine if there is bias.

 

[BlueCat]

It would seem that without a rubric providing an "anchor", scoring will drift for reasons other than teams' performances - particularly during large divisions. By itself, that should be a fatal blow to the Worlds scoring scheme, but USASF just isn't set up to adjust to information like that very quickly.

All of this is incredibly valuable information, but it can serve to point flaws in scoring systems. That, IMO, is a HUGE reason why EPs are often so hyper-secretive about their scoring. They don't want to you to be able to see how bad the judging can be at times.

Universal Scoresheet!! Transparent Scoring!!!