All-Star New scoring

calliesmom

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Feb 16, 2022
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Can anyone explain what's happening with the new scoring? How did these changes come about and why were coaches caught by surprise? I thought there would have been a review process and some warning this was coming. Also, why was it already changed so quickly? (released last Monday? then changed by Wednesday?) The latest update for tumbling doesn't even make sense to me. Basically, if you're at the top of the scoring for tumbling then you'd automatically get all the drivers, unless I'm reading it wrong. Would you anticipate another update?
 
Nov 18, 2010
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I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I was not "caught by surprise"...I knew it was coming, just didn't know what it would be with the way this season went on this current scoresheet and the feedback that was constantly rolling in and complaints being made. It was released to coaches several weeks ago, then the update last week, so it wasn't as back to back as it seems to the general public. As a coach, I appreciated having a few days to digest it and start to learn it myself and speak to kids about it and prepare them before it became fully public so I could educate myself before parents started with the "OMG DOES THAT MEAN MY CHILD WILL BE LEVELED DOWN" (disclaimer, that's a big possibility).

Personally, I think it's a big step in the right direction. I think the update may have "over-corrected" a little bit, but I can see them continuing to adjust it to get it closer to the original in the next few seasons.

As for the drivers part of your question - those are "difficulty" drivers. They've always been there but never been quite so spelled out, which left a lot of room for interpretation. The clarity of those is a huge reason I'm mostly here for this scoresheet, because in theory I will know way more solidly where my teams difficulty score should lie all season long, instead of fluctuating within range (with the same routine, we would go from 3.6 to 4.0 depending on the comp, and it's infuriating). Execution drivers still exist and will be applied accordingly on that side of the scoresheet.
 

oncecoolcoachnowmom

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It appears that a whole lot of athletes who weren’t necessarily elite level skill type tumblers for a level but were placed on a level anyway (because they had some of the level appropriate skills) are in for somewhat of a rude awakening this tryout season.

Just coming from an outsiders perspective as my only experience is with coaching HS, this is good though.

You don’t necessarily want your kid to be the one on the team who is stressed out and “chasing” the skills.

Ex: If I said Varsity cheer required a standing tuck and I placed kids on the team with just a back handspring, they would be the “weak tumbling link” on the team and struggle all season. Their confidence suffers, too. As opposed to being on JV where they are tumbling appropriate and able to learn at an appropriate pace.

Additionally I think requiring elite level tumbling to max out/level up will underscore the idea that it’s OKAY to be on same 2 years in a row.
 
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calliesmom

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I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I was not "caught by surprise"...I knew it was coming, just didn't know what it would be with the way this season went on this current scoresheet and the feedback that was constantly rolling in and complaints being made. It was released to coaches several weeks ago, then the update last week, so it wasn't as back to back as it seems to the general public. As a coach, I appreciated having a few days to digest it and start to learn it myself and speak to kids about it and prepare them before it became fully public so I could educate myself before parents started with the "OMG DOES THAT MEAN MY CHILD WILL BE LEVELED DOWN" (disclaimer, that's a big possibility).

Personally, I think it's a big step in the right direction. I think the update may have "over-corrected" a little bit, but I can see them continuing to adjust it to get it closer to the original in the next few seasons.

As for the drivers part of your question - those are "difficulty" drivers. They've always been there but never been quite so spelled out, which left a lot of room for interpretation. The clarity of those is a huge reason I'm mostly here for this scoresheet, because in theory I will know way more solidly where my teams difficulty score should lie all season long, instead of fluctuating within range (with the same routine, we would go from 3.6 to 4.0 depending on the comp, and it's infuriating). Execution drivers still exist and will be applied accordingly on that side of the scoresheet.
Thank you so much. You answered much of what I was wanting to know. As a parent, I actually like the new scoresheet because I felt it forced being a more well-rounded member of the team. However, my bias as a cheer parent is having a daughter that is a strong tumbler (for level) but often is hiding behind stunts. She's been put on teams because there are often stronger bases who don't have the tumbling. I feel this makes it hard for her to have a chance to learn to stunt and kind of pigeon holes her as just a tumbler as she moves up in tumbling, or eventually she'll get moved down to where she can stunt. I know parents who are in the complete opposite situation though that feel differently. It's good to hear you think they may move towards the original in future seasons as I like that it was so spelled out and less up to opinion on difficulty. What I meant by the drivers, is the latest update says 3.0 for MOST performing advanced or elite pass then the drivers are degree of difficulty-.3 for most performing advanced or elite pass and then max participation - .4 for most performing advanced or elite pass. So the drivers are really saying the same thing as the difficulty, none of these are measuring different things. Am I reading that right?
 

quitthedrama

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@tuckxandxtwist provided a great explanation. To add to it, from a parent perspective, although it does seem to have swung the other way a bit too much for very small teams, I am all for the increased quantity in participation. There is nothing worse than seeing a quarter of the team standing in the back of the main sections of routines. As a parent, it is very frustrating having a $10k nugget, and those athletes spend 75% of practice sitting at the front of the mat and not getting instruction, but what's a coach/gym owner to do when it was rewarded on the score sheet? The teams with difficulty should be rewarded, and it also needs to become acceptable that some teams won't have the difficulty instead of rewarding them nearly the same.
I also feel the scoring has gotten too forgiving. Teams should not be scoring 98-99 when there are flexed feet, bent legs in stunts and tumbling, and passes aren't ending cleanly. It may take an adjustment period, but I like the premise of the new scoring.
Now only if we could get that code of points that I have been begging for for the last 10 years!
 
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I love that it clearly expresses expectation.
I also agree with parents… why in heavens would anyone want to pay to have their child nugget for 2/3 of a routine and front spot.
This new scoring will also more clearly define How and why a team won. Bravo
 
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Before making changes like these, I personally feel strongly Varsity needs to fix the accuracy and quality of the judging. My CP team was in a division in ACP Ohio where the whole division received the same dance and stunt quality scores. Making a more complicated, difficult to judge scoring rubric with more areas that are at the judges discretion might in the long run be the right move for the sport, but you have to have the quality of judges capable of judging these areas

I am all for not having the MAX category, especially for Stunts, I saw too many teams putting up 2 stunts and having the rest of the team nugget.
 
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I’m all for more stunt groups and less standing around, but then expectations re: stunt difficulty might need to go down. There are fewer stunt groups nowadays in part because of the ever increasing difficulty of stunts. Gyms don’t have an unlimited supply of tiny fetus flyers, or an unlimited supply of bases built like tanks who can handle all the difficulty. Some athletes are kinda in between size-wise: not really small enough to fly, but also not really big enough to base the most difficult stunts. The previous era of cheer in which it was expected of you to have every athlete on the floor stunt involved more basic, straight up stunting, not as much of this double up and tick tock 5 times in one routine stuff.
 
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cheermomforever

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Before making changes like these, I personally feel strongly Varsity needs to fix the accuracy and quality of the judging. My CP team was in a division in ACP Ohio where the whole division received the same dance and stunt quality scores. Making a more complicated, difficult to judge scoring rubric with more areas that are at the judges discretion might in the long run be the right move for the sport, but you have to have the quality of judges capable of judging these areas

I am all for not having the MAX category, especially for Stunts, I saw too many teams putting up 2 stunts and having the rest of the team nugget.
We had a judge comment at Worlds to our NT team…”.be more consistent in stunting and tumbling”!!! If that doesn’t say better judging needs to happen then…..are u even watching us?
 
Jul 31, 2016
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I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I was not "caught by surprise"...I knew it was coming, just didn't know what it would be with the way this season went on this current scoresheet and the feedback that was constantly rolling in and complaints being made. It was released to coaches several weeks ago, then the update last week, so it wasn't as back to back as it seems to the general public. As a coach, I appreciated having a few days to digest it and start to learn it myself and speak to kids about it and prepare them before it became fully public so I could educate myself before parents started with the "OMG DOES THAT MEAN MY CHILD WILL BE LEVELED DOWN" (disclaimer, that's a big possibility).

Personally, I think it's a big step in the right direction. I think the update may have "over-corrected" a little bit, but I can see them continuing to adjust it to get it closer to the original in the next few seasons.

As for the drivers part of your question - those are "difficulty" drivers. They've always been there but never been quite so spelled out, which left a lot of room for interpretation. The clarity of those is a huge reason I'm mostly here for this scoresheet, because in theory I will know way more solidly where my teams difficulty score should lie all season long, instead of fluctuating within range (with the same routine, we would go from 3.6 to 4.0 depending on the comp, and it's infuriating). Execution drivers still exist and will be applied accordingly on that side of the scoresheet.
I figured the coaches were aware of this way before we saw the first draft and while it seemed a lot in one year, was kind of disappointed that they changed back to advanced/elite being equal. This is not the first time Varsity has tried to make changes that would ultimately make the sport more competitive and fairer all around only to have programs push back. Probably communication can still be better all around.
 
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was kind of disappointed that they changed back to advanced/elite being equal.

What does that mean it's equal? Whatever these new rules are are causing confusion and some panic among kids on the internet who now seem to think they can't make a Level 6 team anymore unless they have a double or arabian to full lol. Teams aren't going to magically have full team doubles just because the scoresheet is a little different. Even the very best Level 6 teams have plenty of kids with plain fulls or less. Doubles should be rewarded more points than easier passes, yes, but that's not the only tumbling pass you'll see in Level 6.
 
Feb 4, 2010
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I'm answering my own question since I found the updated scoresheet. They've made Advanced and Elite tumbling skills worth the same thing? So then what is even the point of having skills divided into Advanced and Elite if it's all worth the same. But regardless of what scoresheet is used, judges obviously know a whip through to double is more difficult than a whip through to full and will figure out how to give the team with more difficulty more points somewhere. But expecting pretty much any team to have full-team Elite tumbling was unrealistic, so I'm not surprised they made changes.
 
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Jul 31, 2016
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I'm answering my own question since I found the updated scoresheet. They've made Advanced and Elite tumbling skills worth the same thing? So then what is even the point of having skills divided into Advanced and Elite if it's all worth the same. But regardless of what scoresheet is used, judges obviously know a whip through to double is more difficult than a whip through to full and will figure out how to give the team with more difficulty more points somewhere. But expecting pretty much any team to have full-team Elite tumbling was unrealistic, so I'm not surprised they made changes.
Exactly and based on the scoresheet they should not give more difficulty points somewhere. That's why I am a little disappointed; it was very clear as laid out. Agree it was probably unrealistic for many teams in one year, but I personally think going in this direction is better long term.
 

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