All-Star No Competition At Competitions?

[Cheeemomlife]

We were recently the only team in our division but had to hit a minimum score in order to earn the jackets. Ironically it was their highest scores and best routines of the year so far.

Does anyone know what that minimum score is? I thought i knew it at one time, but i am not sure.

 

[CLynn]

Year 1:

Division of 10 teams...

New all star program: Mediocre All stars finishes in 8th place

Parents: “OMG!! You girls did so good! It’s the first competition that you didn’t finish last. We are so proud of you!”

Three years later

Mediocre All Stars has their best finish ever 3rd place

Parents: “I’m so tired of paying for al this stuff and travel and we never win anything.”

Never mind the fact that the team has consistently gotten better over time. These parents only see the win, not the improvement. They want to circumvent the process.

I understand what you are saying and can only imagine how frustrating that is. There has to be a balance though between what you experience and creating so many winners that everything is diluted.

 

[dat.jpp]

My coaches teach us the only competition we have are for bids.

 

[BlueCat]

My coaches teach us the only competition we have are for bids.

The advent of the year-end events with bids has dramatically changed the sport from top to bottom. There are some positives, but it has pushed even more of a "win now" mentality, which I think has been an overall negative. It has also skyrocketed the overall cost of participation for many reasons.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I appreciate that.

Let me see if I can explain what I witness on a regular basis. Keep in mind, I’m not a gym owner, all star coach, or parent. I’m a single dude who played mainstream sports his whole life, but also did and now coaches cheer.

Year 1:

Division of 10 teams...

New all star program: Mediocre All stars finishes in 8th place

Parents: “OMG!! You girls did so good! It’s the first competition that you didn’t finish last. We are so proud of you!”

Three years later

Mediocre All Stars has their best finish ever 3rd place

Parents: “I’m so tired of paying for al this stuff and travel and we never win anything.”

Never mind the fact that the team has consistently gotten better over time. These parents only see the win, not the improvement. They want to circumvent the process. People talk about Top Gun...I remember when Victor and Kristen were still in college and Top Gun was in its infancy....20+ years ago

Graves County is one of the stronger HS programs, they went to HS nationals for 20 years before they won one.

If you want to build a consistently strong program, it takes a lot of time doing it the right way...unfortunately too many want instant gratification.

Yes. I see it with grades too in counseling.

Let's say Suzy enrolls in Cosmetology Career Tech Program.

She struggles (because the first semester of cosmetology is lots of biology and vocab re: hair and skin functions. Not doing hair.)

She gets a C- first quarter. Quarter 2 she gets a B.

Me: Super proud of Suzy for not quitting and for doing her best and showing improvement.

Parent: Wants to meet with me ASAP because "omg she is doing so poorly why isn't she getting an A" and they want me to move her back to a regular schedule and have her quit Cosmetology (which has limited spots and was selective to even get into.)

A lot of parents do not see the value in struggle. They see struggle and want path of least resistance.

 

[DropAndRun]

I want to say that you get a ring anyway if you are only team in your division at Summit.

Has anyone ever been only in their division at a major comp before?

Maybe @littlestALLSTAR or @DropAndRun know (being previously Y5 I feel like this has happened to you before?)

Yep. Droplet earned a summit ring in 2017 simply for showing up in FL. Unfortunately the gym chose not to take them the year before that when they would have had competition and were undefeated!

 

[Power1979]

We were the only Large Youth 3 to receive D2 summit bid last year they put us in small division. Not exactly fair when the top 3 were essentially the size of stunt groups. The year prior there was 1 other large Youth 3. This year our gym nixed the large Youth 3 and made a J3 instead since we want to be judged apples to apples going to D2 summit.

 

[riwa12]

Does anyone know what that minimum score is? I thought i knew it at one time, but i am not sure.

It was a 92 at this particular competition.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Yep. Droplet earned a summit ring in 2017 simply for showing up in FL. Unfortunately the gym chose not to take them the year before that when they would have had competition and were undefeated!

That has to be really annoying if your kid is not there competing on at least one other team (ex: Crush and YE.) Otherwise, you just paid $x,000 to go to FL to basically pick up rings.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

The advent of the year-end events with bids has dramatically changed the sport from top to bottom. There are some positives, but it has pushed even more of a "win now" mentality, which I think has been an overall negative. It has also skyrocketed the overall cost of participation for many reasons.

Question: ARE KIDS EVEN EXCITED TO WIN (EXAMPLE) NCA or other big comps anymore ( like Cheersport?)

(Serious question. All I really see these days is excitement over bid reveals, getting paid, going to Worlds, scoring for bids, etc.)

 

[catlady]

Gym owners can't control the price of venues, hotels and airfare, but they do determine their team divisions and how much traveling they require. "Cost effective" and "fair" rarely co-exist, so in fairness to the gym owners, parents can't complain about one and not take the consequences of the other. I would love to see gym owners choose to attend more local events, but that requires parents to be okay with combining divisions. It isn't always "fair," but kids will survive losing and work harder if they want to win. Kids will miss less school, they will miss less time in the gym, your checkbook will thank you, and EP's will have more options bidding on smaller venues.

@oncecoolcoachnowmom my observation is NCA and Cheersport where the bid comes hand in hand-"yes, they are excited." However, at other events, I have noticed the excitement of winning an event is now followed by extreme disappointment if they don't receive a bid.

 

[123jump4!]

However, at other events, I have noticed the excitement of winning an event is now followed by extreme disappointment if they don't receive a bid.

Yes that is true I think. We were really excited about winning Spirit of Hope and CP getting her first ever jacket! Then it was a bit of a downer to not get a Summit bid. We didn't really think we would but still felt the disappointment.

I agree with what @BlueCat has said about the topic. I think it would be better if lower levels & ages could concentrate on growth and having fun instead of chasing summit bids and travel lots and spend $$$. I'm personally ok with not getting a summit bid but of course all the kids and coaches want it and some parents.

 

[CLynn]

Question: ARE KIDS EVEN EXCITED TO WIN (EXAMPLE) NCA or other big comps anymore ( like Cheersport?)

YES. That NCA jacket and trophy are everything. My cp prefers it to Summit, and with the crossover rules I feel it is the most level playing field you will find.

 

[BlueCat]

Question: ARE KIDS EVEN EXCITED TO WIN (EXAMPLE) NCA or other big comps anymore ( like Cheersport?)

(Serious question. All I really see these days is excitement over bid reveals, getting paid, going to Worlds, scoring for bids, etc.)

Kids are still excited about those events - but not as much as they used to be.

 

[cheerios27]

Question: ARE KIDS EVEN EXCITED TO WIN (EXAMPLE) NCA or other big comps anymore ( like Cheersport?)

(Serious question. All I really see these days is excitement over bid reveals, getting paid, going to Worlds, scoring for bids, etc.)

My CP retired last year but our best friends still cheer. In our experience the value of winning nationals/summit bids depends on how the gym handles it.. The gym CP started with only accepted paid Summit bids. It made every competition feel meaningless if one of those paid bids didn't come to them, like winning alone was not good enough. It was frustrating and heartbreaking to see the kids not value their hard work of winning all because of a paid bid to a year end event. It bred resentment from parents and athletes, as certain teams were made up of kids crossing down 3 levels running around all celebrating their paid bids while other teams (CP's included) in the gym were at level just trying to consistently hit. This eventually was the reason she decided to leave and drive over an hour to practice. The new gym accepted any bid, and what a difference it made. It helped that they actually form every team with athletes above level, work incredibly hard all summer, are at top competition form in November and typically before their first National every team in the gym has a summit bid from WC events. What we saw was the joy of winning a National return, and we went to many not just Cheersport and NCA. It wasn't about the summit bid because that was out of the way. For them winning NCA was like winning Worlds, it was so amazing to see. It was refreshing to see what cheer used to be before Summit. The irony for us personally, CP went to new gym with a goal to make their J5 team and get to Summit and instead made their worlds team, meaning, she never got to Summit hahaha. All worked out though, she had a pretty great World's experience :)