All-Star Not All Star Related But I Need Thoughts

[gofriars610]

Curious as to how other states make their divisions.

Maine*, NH, and CT are by school size. Vermont's is a bit different and appears to be by team size. Also, it's Vermont...with less than a million people living in the entire state they can't have that many cheerleaders, total.

*if you're a tiny private school and you want to compete in Class A you can petition your way up

 

[allstarmama]

So I just went to look at the rules again. Here is how divisions are currently broken down:

16. Divisional Placement/Enrollment: Divisions will be re-aligned every two (2) years based on female enrollment. Beginning with the 2017-18 academic year, divisions will be re-aligned every four (4) years based on female enrollment. If schools combine for participation in cheerleading, the female enrollment of each school will be combined to determine the divisional placement. Divisional placement of teams in open invitationals and/or league competitions may be different from those defined in the MSSAA Divisional Chart. The MSSAA uses its division alignments to determine which teams advance to regional tournaments and the state championship.

The red part is a rule change made this year but will not start for a few more years.

I don't see anything about pulling the top 8 teams out and having everyone else compete for a state title. I really can't see how this would ever be accepted.

This new change is happening as we speak. That's why you don't see anything about it on MSSAA's website or rules.

 

[quitthedrama]

I don't necessarily disagree there. But just because a team is coached by an all star coach doesn't mean the school has a huge budget for cheer. I know at CPs school we (parents) pay for our own camps,choreography and practice wear. We also have to fundraise for uniforms and any other "extras". We also pay a "user fee" that is $300.

Most teams fundraise and it is not in the school budget. I was trying to make the point that some division 1 and 2 schools are very low income and don't have that ability to even fundraise. I think for the most part we are both on the same page!

"You are only responsible for being honest, not for someone else's reaction to your honesty."

 

[twincheermom]

This new change is happening as we speak. That's why you don't see anything about it on MSSAA's website or rules.

Now I can't wait for Saturday!!

 

[Kaylee_Kitty_Kat_75_]

This is high school related but I just need to see what people think about this. I can't believe I am the only one that thinks it's absolutely ridiculous! (I did also post on the high school board but it's not very active over there). They are trying to implement this "new rule" for the current season...NOW at the end of September just a few weeks before the first competition.

So I've gotten wind that "The Powers That Be" in Massachusetts are trying to eliminate the best teams in the state from the state competition in order to give "other teams a chance". WAIT WHAT???? Yes, you heard me right. From what I have heard, the plan is to try and implement a new rule that would take the top 8 teams (regardless of division) from Regionals and put them in a separate category to compete at a separate event. Those 8 teams would NOT be eligible to compete for the state title in their division. I'm sorry but this is absolutely ludicrous. These coaches want to be able to compete for a "state" title AFTER removing the best teams in the state. It sounds like some sort of sick joke but it is really being discussed!!! Thoughts?? My thought is NOT EVERYONE NEEDS A TROPHY!!!! If you can't win a state title in your division because teams are better than you UP YOUR GAME!!! I am incensed over this...so tired of the mentality that everyone deserves to win.....they don't! The teams that are competitive year after year are competitive because their schools put a lot into the programs!

RIDICULOUS. WOW.
Why..???? It is a COMPETITIVE SPORT not rec for crying out loud. They signed up for this. They should KNOW that there are really good teams and in order to beat them, they must up their game. The teams who try hard deserve to win because of effort. If you don't try, YOU DON'T NEED TO WIN.
There's my 2 cents.

 

[Official OWECheer]

RIDICULOUS. WOW.
Why..???? It is a COMPETITIVE SPORT not rec for crying out loud. They signed up for this. They should KNOW that there are really good teams and in order to beat them, they must up their game. The teams who try hard deserve to win because of effort. If you don't try, YOU DON'T NEED TO WIN.
There's my 2 cents.

I think the problem people are talking about is the fact that a lot of the teams that place badly place that way not because they're lazy, but rather because they lack access to resources that the more successful teams have. Tumbling classes, professional choreography, camps, etc.

 

[Kaylee_Kitty_Kat_75_]

I think the problem people are talking about is the fact that a lot of the teams that place badly place that way not because they're lazy, but rather because they lack access to resources that the more successful teams have. Tumbling classes, professional choreography, camps, etc.

Ahh, okay. Well, I still think it's unfair to remove teams because of this. However, it's one thing if they're performing at the same level, and another team is better but they get removed to give someone else a chance. But I do agree that they should be competing against their own level, not higher ones because that's not really fair.

 

[Tealxblack25]

Coming from a state where the same school wins every year and every season.. I can agree with making changes in trying to give everyone a fair chance. Truly, while its a great accomplishment to be well decorated, it does get old after a while. Its like deja vu every season. I dont mean this like I think everyone should get a ribbon.. I just mean like, I want different teams to feel that feeling of being a state champion.

So I can agree with making small changes however, this change seems kind of drastic and not effective because then once the chance is implemented there will be a new winner.. and a new "best" team.. It will become a vicious cricle.

 

[mamabear]

Are the top eight powerhouses in football grouped for competition together too?

 

[quitthedrama]

Are the top eight powerhouses in football grouped for competition together too?

Pretty much. Sports like football and basketball have town programs, so kids start young and are coached through the town system. There is AAU basketball, but it is reasonably affordable and many kids from each town play. This isn't the case with cheer where you have a huge advantage if you have all star cheerleaders on your high school team, or if the town demographics allow parents to privately pay for tumbling and/or practices at all star gyms.
I would put a sport such as hockey in a similar category as cheer, where just because a school may have a huge population and therefore are in division 1 they may not have a lot of kids who have played hockey prior to high school due to the expense.

"You are only responsible for being honest, not for someone else's reaction to your honesty."

 

[allstarmama]

I think the problem people are talking about is the fact that a lot of the teams that place badly place that way not because they're lazy, but rather because they lack access to resources that the more successful teams have. Tumbling classes, professional choreography, camps, etc.

My CP's team is successful. They do not have tumbling classes. They tumble on the hard floor in the school gym. They have ONE skills/choreography camp (that is not funded by the school) and that's it. No special resources, just a lot of hard work, a great coach and talented kids.

 

[allstarmama]

Are the top eight powerhouses in football grouped for competition together too?

NO! You make it to the super bowl and compete by division in football. Public high schools play powerhouse private schools that recruit. How awesome a feeling it is when someone beats them! A much better feeling then a made up title would be if you took these teams out of the running!!!

 

[allstarmama]

Pretty much. Sports like football and basketball have town programs, so kids start young and are coached through the town system. There is AAU basketball, but it is reasonably affordable and many kids from each town play. This isn't the case with cheer where you have a huge advantage if you have all star cheerleaders on your high school team, or if the town demographics allow parents to privately pay for tumbling and/or practices at all star gyms.
I would put a sport such as hockey in a similar category as cheer, where just because a school may have a huge population and therefore are in division 1 they may not have a lot of kids who have played hockey prior to high school due to the expense.

"You are only responsible for being honest, not for someone else's reaction to your honesty."

The answer is not "pretty much" it is NO! Football teams go through the playoffs, if they make it to the super bowl they play the other team in their division that makes it...could be a private (that has a huge budget)or public school.

 

[EWalsh1029]

Now I can't wait for Saturday!!

Please keep us updated! I see the pros & cons to this change - interested to see how it works out!

Also, I wanted so badly to do judges certification this year but never got around to it and planned community service on the same day - maybe next year!

 

[quitthedrama]

The answer is not "pretty much" it is NO! Football teams go through the playoffs, if they make it to the super bowl they play the other team in their division that makes it...could be a private (that has a huge budget)or public school.

We will have to agree to disagree. You are right that there is the private school issue that affects many sports (not cheer however), but out of 6 divisions there was only one private school who made it to the superbowl last year. The point I was trying to make is that compared to cheer, sports like football and basketball are more evenly aligned within divisions.