All-Star Not All Star Related But I Need Thoughts

[quitthedrama]

So we should just give everyone a state title then? I'm sorry but novice teams don't belong in the state tournament to begin with. States is supposed to be the best of the best. Saying a team with 10% BHS should be able to place top 3 at states is like saying a level 2 team should be able to medal at Worlds.

Or perhaps one could look at it like Worlds and Summit. No one would put TGLC against a Senior coed level 1 team and have them compete with the exact same scoresheet and same criteria, even if they were from a gym with the same number of athletes. That is why there are two separate divisions - and competitions for each team in the all star world. The same somewhat holds true for high school. Even though Game Day is being held at the same competition, it is not the same type of competition and everyone involved in cheerleading knows that.

 

[allstarmama]

Or perhaps one could look at it like Worlds and Summit. No one would put TGLC against a Senior coed level 1 team and have them compete with the exact same scoresheet and same criteria, even if they were from a gym with the same number of athletes. That is why there are two separate divisions - and competitions for each team in the all star world. The same somewhat holds true for high school. Even though Game Day is being held at the same competition, it is not the same type of competition and everyone involved in cheerleading knows that.

Not a huge fan of the Summit....not everyone is talented enough to go to World's. That's life....not every team is talented enough to win a state title. Like I said before talent comes and goes....kids are only on a high school team for 4 years. Teams that are successful year after year are that way for a reason.

I think I just have a differing opinion on who belongs at states and who doesn't. In no other sport do you have novice level athletes competing for a state title. It should be reserved for the best of the best.

 

[quitthedrama]

It's not a sense


Not a huge fan of the Summit....not everyone is talented enough to go to World's. That's life....not every team is talented enough to win a state title. Like I said before talent comes and goes....kids are only on a high school team for 4 years. Teams that are successful year after year are that way for a reason.

Fair enough. So was your original post referring to the Game Day Division? This was proposed by mssaa several weeks ago, prior to the season starting, and is an additional division. It has been published on their website for weeks. No teams are being eliminated or prohibited from qualifying for the state competition. I'm honestly not trying to argue, I'm just trying to determine if there is something else that is being proposed that I'm not aware of.

 

[allstarmama]

Fair enough. So was your original post referring to the Game Day Division? This was proposed by mssaa several weeks ago, prior to the season starting, and is an additional division. It has been published on their website for weeks. No teams are being eliminated or prohibited from qualifying for the state competition. I'm honestly not trying to argue, I'm just trying to determine if there is something else that is being proposed that I'm not aware of.

No, there will be a new division implemented for the 2016 season that will eliminate the top teams from their divisions. They will then compete in a new separate division. This information has not been published yet, it is coming out to coaches in bits and pieces. This will be in addition to the Game Day Division already added. I think they had planned to implement it for the current season but I'm thinking they received a lot of backlash from coaches.

 

[Gnarly_Karli]

No, there will be a new division implemented for the 2016 season that will eliminate the top teams from their divisions. They will then compete in a new separate division. This information has not been published yet, it is coming out to coaches in bits and pieces. This will be in addition to the Game Day Division already added. I think they had planned to implement it for the current season but I'm thinking they received a lot of backlash from coaches.

Although I understand your frustration all the other schools will still know the "top 8" are the best teams. Try to think of states as "nationals" and your new division as "worlds" in the allstar world. Pretty awesome that you're team is selected as one of the elite!!!

 

[allstarmama]

Although I understand your frustration all the other schools will still know the "top 8" are the best teams. Try to think of states as "nationals" and your new division as "worlds" in the allstar world. Pretty awesome that you're team is selected as one of the elite!!!

I just fundamentally disagree with it. I feel like it's just another bow to "the everyone gets a trophy" movement. I don't even know if CP's team would be one of the 8. I know when the girls were asked about it they weren't happy because they want that state title. My CP questioned how do you explain to someone that "No we didn't win states in our school's division but we are better than the team that did?". Change is never easy but I really feel like there is too much pandering to kid's egos these days. It's ok that your team isn't as talented as team X. As these kids turn into adults they aren't going to be the best at everything they aren't always going to deserve that award at work and THATS OK!!! Their bosses aren't going to remove the smarter and more qualified candidates from the pool lol!!

 

[shootingstarsfan]

This is all very interesting to me. I live in mass and I would say I went to a "powerhouse" high school when it comes to cheer. I would also say all of the surrounding towns have amazing cheer programs. I can't imagine anyone in my area agreeing to this.

 

[Tealxblack25]

You know what gives everyone a fair chance??? HARD WORD and a dedicated coach! My CP's coach eats, sleeps and breathes high school cheer during the season. She works her booty off and runs efficient practices. She is qualified for the job and loves it. If this isn't the case for your school then hire a new QUALIFIED coach! We have no big budget...we had to fight to get a good coach and she's done amazing things with the program.

I cant help but take offense to this because I am actually the coach, I've been coaching for 6 years and am very decorated and "QUALIFIED" I would coach for free if I had to. Some schools and schools districts have more money than others. Some schools are academies going against public schools. I have a very good relationship with the coaches from these top programs and I would never put them down for their accomplishments. All I am saying is that when its CLEAR that its just not possible to be at the top teams calibur year after year season after season especially after working hard all season - the thought crosses your mind that you wish there could be some changes implemented.

You seem to be insinuating in your reply that teams that arent at the top dont work hard enough. Thats insulting.
My team works hard all season all year, we are happy and grateful for whatever place we get to be honest. Its all about experience for us.

I wish you luck to your CP's team and hope you find it somewhere in your heart to understand where some of the less "qualified" coaches and teams are coming from.

-Hanna

 

[allstarmama]

I cant help but take offense to this because I am actually the coach, I've been coaching for 6 years and am very decorated and "QUALIFIED" I would coach for free if I had to. Some schools and schools districts have more money than others. Some schools are academies going against public schools. I have a very good relationship with the coaches from these top programs and I would never put them down for their accomplishments. All I am saying is that when its CLEAR that its just not possible to be at the top teams calibur year after year season after season especially after working hard all season - the thought crosses your mind that you wish there could be some changes implemented.

You seem to be insinuating in your reply that teams that arent at the top dont work hard enough. Thats insulting.
My team works hard all season all year, we are happy and grateful for whatever place we get to be honest. Its all about experience for us.

I wish you luck to your CP's team and hope you find it somewhere in your heart to understand where some of the less "qualified" coaches and teams are coming from.

-Hanna

I apologize...that was not my intent. I don't doubt that you and your athletes work hard. I'm just really frustrated by this whole thing. My CP's high school does not have some crazy cheer budget. They have not been a powerhouse year after year. Parents got together and petitioned for changes and we got a great coach. Like I said before I think States should be the best of the best. Regardless of how hard you work I don't think a team with 10% BHS belongs in the top 3 at States. I realize that may be offensive to some. In no other sport do you have novice level teams competing for a state title. Implementing this new rule will take away the prestige that state title holds. Just like all the "Nationals" in All Star. It's a joke...just about any team can hang a national champion banner on their wall because there are so many. It's come down to the big two that really matter (NCA and Cheersport). It's part of the reason why people don't take cheerleading seriously.

 

[EWalsh1029]

Fair enough. So was your original post referring to the Game Day Division? This was proposed by mssaa several weeks ago, prior to the season starting, and is an additional division. It has been published on their website for weeks. No teams are being eliminated or prohibited from qualifying for the state competition. I'm honestly not trying to argue, I'm just trying to determine if there is something else that is being proposed that I'm not aware of.

This new division, D1A or whatever it will be called is something that has been in talks. Our choreographer mentioned it to us at Choreo and I was like oh game day (the only 'new' division I was aware of) and then he said no, the mssaa is trying to get this started. I feel the only teams who really know about the possible division would be teams that would possibly be selected (just going off last years scores).... But not sure!

I also would like to know if with this new division they make it for all girl & coed, or just all girl? Because then you have small/large coed that would need something similar(because let's face it - MA has some great Coed teams; but then some other ones who only go coed because they know it'll get them to qualify for states)! Lots of things for the MSSAA to think about !

 

[quitthedrama]

So now that I have done a bit of research and spoke with a few people the original post for this thread and the other thread started is not exactly accurate. There is a whole lot of irony here :confused:

 

[allstarmama]

I don't think I implied it was shady did I? What is shady is trying to push this through at the end of September after coaches have chosen their teams and choreographed routines based on their current divisions.
I still fundamentally disagree with it because I don't think a novice team should be in a position to win a state title and I disagree that this new division will be considered "the" state title. The prestige of the title will be tarnished by this...just like the "national champion" title in all stars. You will have a team that throws elite tumbling and skills "sharing" the title with teams that barely throw intermediate level skills. I know everyone thinks they should have the opportunity to win it but that's just not the real world. Everyone should be able to compete to get there and if you make it through....great!!!! But watering down the competition so those teams have a shot doesn't help the sport or its athletes.
You want to have a State Grand Champ? Then take all the States winners and put them head to head! That is something I would absolutely support!
The current idea is akin to taking Shooting Stars, Senior Elite and F5 out of large senior because they are too good and no one else has a chance to win. That would be ridiculous right??

 

[Doctorcheer]

It sounds like these rules aren't for this year? correct?

 

[allstarmama]

It sounds like these rules aren't for this year? correct?

Correct, they have opted to implement it next season. Initially, I was told they wanted to do it this year, not sure if that is true or not. The information coming out has not been great which is another reason I don't like it. Be transparent, let everyone weigh in before you make a huge change like this.

 

[Doctorcheer]

Correct, they have opted to implement it next season. Initially, I was told they wanted to do it this year, not sure if that is true or not. The information coming out has not been great which is another reason I don't like it. Be transparent, let everyone weigh in before you make a huge change like this.

Okay, I was just confused cause you were talking about choreography for this year. So it really has no impact on this year. I agree information needs to be streamlined but I have yet to see any organization efficiently do this.