All-Star Number Of Crossovers/stacking Teams

[gymcatmomx2]

The rules produced by the USASF are determined by the electorate meaning the members make the decisions. If you are adamant about crossovers becoming regulated then become a member of the USASF and vote. I will continue to raise this issue every chance I get because without being regulated, crossovers have been taken out of context and are being abused severely. Crossovers in it's presence state is hurting small gyms more than helping us.


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I would have to disagree that crossovers are hurting small gyms. Our small gym has 4 competition teams, mini lvl 1, youth lvl 2, sr coed lvl 3 and sr lvl 4. Each team has 20 athletes. There is no way that we would be able to have 4 full teams without crossovers due to the 75 athlete limit for small gyms. We can only take 3 out of the 4 teams to NCA due to their crossover restriction, which in my opinion should be removed for small gyms. Unfortunately, it happens to be our youth 2 team that took high point at ACA and had the 3rd highest score (by less than 1 point) from close to 60 (both large and small gyms) level 2 teams.

 

[Fiercechick91]

Okay but what about this scenario is it okay in your opinion. My gym is a small gym that's been open for about 9 years. We have 4 crossovers from level 5 to level 4 but all of these girls don't have level 5 skills tumbling wise, they don't even have level 4 skills consistently. They are on Senior 5 to base and one of them is to fly. The reason they are on the level 4 is to help get layouts better and get standing tucks better so they are better prepared for Senior 5 the next year. and we also have a girl who is on Youth level 2 as a base because they were a girl short on the team to have 4 stunt groups and her 2 sisters and 1 cousin is on that team already (so shes there at pracice) but she is on Senior 4 as a flyer and is one of the main tumblers and middle flier. but on the youth 2 they only have her doing a standing back handspring and a round off back handspring so that she isn't being highlighted and using all of her skills. Then we also have 3 cross overs from Senior 4 to our small senior 2 including me but its because our standing tumbling isn't there. My running tumbling is good but for the life of me i cant master standing stumbling. So in that routine i do all the standing tumbling i can and i base the flier that's least experienced and same with the other 2 girls except they are in different stunt groups.

 

[RockstarCheer]

I could care less about crossovers...The rules are the rules and whatever the rules are I will follow them. If I go up against a team of Full crossovers then so be it. The Level rules are in place to provide ceilings within the rules. As a gym owner and coach, we do our very best to top out every level when possible. As a large gym, I don't have to use crossovers near as much as a small gyms. I want Small gyms to be competitive and compete with the large gyms. I truly believe that by taking away the crossover rules, you in effect stamp out the ability of a Small gym to survive. I want as many all-star gyms as possible, as many teams to compete against as possible. IMO, keep the crossover rules the way they are.

 

[MyDaughterCheers]

Crossovers simply to stack teams frustrates me. Gym A has a sr. 5, sr, 4, and J3. On the sr 4 team, there are 16 out of 26 girls that are on Sr5, and about 12 of those same girls are on J3. This same gym used to have a 4.2 and the team was filled mostly with sr. 5 and sr 4 girls. That is stacking, not necessity.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Tumbling is not the end determining factor of what level an athlete should be placed on. It is one aspect and as we have seen on score sheets plays far less of a role than stunting does in contributing to the team score. Often in putting the best stunt groups together you mave have to use weaker tumblers - meaning they may be at the lower end of the level tumbling wise and not the higher end. To emphasize stunting more, tumbling scores now have less of a percentage. The tumbling can be completely amazing, but it most cases still wont win the competition for any one team.

I agree that a level 5 athlete will in the majority of cases make their level 2 and 3 tumbling look picture perfect. But I have also had some level 2's who were true level 2's who had picture perfect tumbling because they worked hard on it. They took pride in it and were not rushing or being rushed by parents, peers or coaches to hurry up and get their tuck so they could move up to level 3. It was in the other areas of stunting and jumps and dance that you could see they were truly level 2's. Also because teams pick their teams differently it is hard to always say who is crossing up - a level 3 who can base anything but is a weak tumbler who is needed to base on a Restricted 5 team, or crossing down - an amazing tumbler with full punch double and standing full just doing tumbling passes and front spotting on level 3. IMO we always assume the highest level is the athlete's true level, but it may not be that way in every gym.

The bigger issue with crossovers and stacking (two different things in my mind) is that if you eliminate crossovers entirely you hurt every gym in the country as well as the entire industry. Teams will pull out of competitions if they have a couple of injuries rather than re-choregraph sections of the routine, rearrange stunt groups, etc. EP's will lose money with teams pulling out because they can not use crossovers and are unwilling to compete at what they determine is a disadvantage to their athletes and that team. The smaller EP's and local competitions will take a definite hit.

I would like to see crossovers with some limitations but come on we cant even get athlete registration and good safety certification for coaches yet. Do you really believe they will push this issue knowing how much money it makes for them?;)

 

[omgitssydthekid]

I go to a small, first year gym. We have four full year teams. A small mini level 1 (15?), large youth level 2 (24?), small senior co-ed 3 (17?), and a small senior co-ed 5 (17). Our crossovers are shown below:

Mini 1: 2 crossovers from youth 2
Youth 2: 1 crossover from senior 3
Senior 3: 3 crossovers from senior 5
Senior 5: 2 crossovers from senior 3

Mini level 1 has a few crossovers to fill out the team a little bit, youth 2 has a crossover because they needed a base but they have since added a few athletes and now she is used as a base/backspot/flyer, senior 3 needed a few filler kids from senior 5 and one of girls' (<-on senior 5) brother is also on senior 3 so her mom made her double team and the other two don't have their fulls consistant yet, and after a few ahletes quit we had to pull two athletes from senior 3 for senior 5. We pulled up a girl who had a half at the time (she now has a full/combo to full/hand hand full), and the boy who is the sibling of a girl on senior 5. In my opinion, I don't believe we are stacking our teams, we are just a small gym trying to be competitive. None of the people we have chosen to crossover have been the strongest over-all athlete on the team, they are more in the middle.

Sorry if this is confusing lol, it all made sense to me but that's not saying much right now. :confused:

 

[allstarmama]

Mass amounts of crossovers provide no gym longevity.

Cross overs dont necessarily bother me because I know some kids are gym rats and WANT to be on more than one team,and it is a business, right? However, i think when it's all said and done if your program of 7 teams only taught 6 flyers how to do anything, you are not providing a quality service.

Even though everyone likes winning, how long will a family pay thousands of dollars to watch their kid stand behind a girl who is already front center for 3 other routines? Not long I hope! Be smart consumers!

If I could shimmy this a thousand times I would!!!

 

[Big Dog 1122]

now some events wont let you have crossovers one team crossover to another team that is more than two levels. ( example: a level 5 kid cant compete on a level 1 or 2)

 

[tumbleyoda]

After tryouts we had 2 crossovers with 10 teams. Unfortunately this past weekend we had to use several due to various sickness, injuries etc going on in the gym, but I love our little or none at all approach to crossovers. It works well for us just as I have seen gyms with massive crossovers do very well.

 

[xoxbeastbackspotxox]

I mean I'm on J2, and my gym asked me to cross over to S2 bc they didn't have enough girls. I think that is acceptable in my opinion at least.

 

[SkyBlue]

I would have to disagree that crossovers are hurting small gyms. Our small gym has 4 competition teams, mini lvl 1, youth lvl 2, sr coed lvl 3 and sr lvl 4. Each team has 20 athletes. There is no way that we would be able to have 4 full teams without crossovers due to the 75 athlete limit for small gyms. We can only take 3 out of the 4 teams to NCA due to their crossover restriction, which in my opinion should be removed for small gyms. Unfortunately, it happens to be our youth 2 team that took high point at ACA and had the 3rd highest score (by less than 1 point) from close to 60 (both large and small gyms) level 2 teams.

I'm kind of confused on what you mean here, so my questions might seem dumb. Is there a reason that your gym feels that each team must consist of 20 athletes? Is the gym turning away athletes to remain a small gym? Having a full 20 athletes on a small team doesn't guarantee that the team will score better, visually large teams always look great, but its how the number of athletes reflect on the score sheet is what counts. It seems silly that a team has to get left out of NCA because the team is over the limit on cross overs, when you can be just as competitive with 16 athletes.

 

[kickdblcj]

I honestly think that crossover sometimes take away from a teams performance. For example I love seeing those really good level 4 teams that perform great and have great difficulty. But the second that I see a level 5 athlete (theyre extremely easy to spot) I think "oh" and Im not impressed anymore. Anyone can have an amazing level 4 when you have level 5 athletes.

 

[gymcatmomx2]

I'm kind of confused on what you mean here, so my questions might seem dumb. Is there a reason that your gym feels that each team must consist of 20 athletes? Is the gym turning away athletes to remain a small gym? Having a full 20 athletes on a small team doesn't guarantee that the team will score better, visually large teams always look great, but its how the number of athletes reflect on the score sheet is what counts. It seems silly that a team has to get left out of NCA because the team is over the limit on cross overs, when you can be just as competitive with 16 athletes.

I agree that smaller teams with less then 20 athletes can be just as competitive, however we have athletes from our level 2 team that are are on our mini team as well as our Senior 3 and Senior 4 teams. If we didn't have crossovers then our level 2 team would only have 10 athletes. In my opinion, a team that small just isn't as competitive as teams with 16 - 20 athletes. As it stands, our level 2 team is phenomenal and it's a shame that NCA doesn't allow crossovers for small gyms.

 

[gymcatmomx2]

I agree that smaller teams with less then 20 athletes can be just as competitive, however we have athletes from our level 2 team that are are on our mini team as well as our Senior 3 and Senior 4 teams. If we didn't have crossovers then our level 2 team would only have 10 athletes. In my opinion, a team that small just isn't as competitive as teams with 16 - 20 athletes. As it stands, our level 2 team is phenomenal and it's a shame that NCA doesn't allow crossovers for small gyms.

You stated that "it seems silly that a team has to get left out of NCA because the team is over the limit on cross overs".... it's my understanding that at NCA Nationals there can be no crossovers. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[redsmom]

You stated that "it seems silly that a team has to get left out of NCA because the team is over the limit on cross overs".... it's my understanding that at NCA Nationals there can be no crossovers. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

An individual can compete on 2 teams at NCA nationals, no crossovers between levels, and a max of 5 crossovers on an given team.