All-Star Releasing Athletes

[Jessicaa]

@Rudags
Is this something you do for every single team in your gym? Including youth teams? Or is it senior/level 5 only? :)

We recently had a discussion in my gym about alternates (we only have youth teams). It's interesting to know how others do!


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[omgitssydthekid]

If you committed to a season, I believe you should not be able to compete anywhere else for the remainder of that season. If you quit, that's fine. It happens. But you shouldn't be allowed to go elsewhere. But that's just my opinion.

Four years ago I left my gym (at the time) midseason because it wasn't a healthy environment for me anymore. I waited a month or two and then went and started tumbling at another gym. I started practicing with one of their teams, but I was not on the team. It was just to get a feel of what their gym was like. I filled in during practice if a flyer was gone, but I never competed with them during the season.

I don't think it's unfair to ask someone to wait a season before competing with another gym.


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[Rudags]

@Rudags
Is this something you do for every single team in your gym? Including youth teams? Or is it senior/level 5 only? :)

We recently had a discussion in my gym about alternates (we only have youth teams). It's interesting to know how others do!


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We had alternates for our Senior 2, Junior 3, Coed 4 and Coed 5. We did not have alternates for Youth 2 and Junior 1 (altho when we had injuries, payment issues, etc. we pulled subs from J3) as those are "starter" levels. The alternates were typically one level down. Example, alternates for J3 were from my Senior 2, etc.

 

[Rudags]

What if they jump ship, not too long after November, and go to the mega gym down the road that you hate? How many of you would gladly sign the release then? (not you @Rudags, you answered this question already. Plus, I know your character.)

I ask because I have seen spiteful gym owners hold students hostage from Worlds, for virtually an entire season. These are kids who competed one or two times with their gym, then for their and their family's own reasons, decided to move to our gym.

It's sad to see a child go through that.

I know I already answered but presentation is EVERYTHING. Ive once in my life had someone quit with dignity. ONCE. Typically its an email or text saying I quit only to hop on social media to see libel/slander and craziness. At that point… No. You're not released. And no, I don't feel bad. :-)

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

That's a very Pollyanna way of looking at it. I'm all about being neutral when kids leave my program. And we constantly remind each other that we get these kids for one year (that's what they committed to and if they stay for another year, awesome, if not then maybe we didn't do our best job with them).

But comparing what I do for a living to drinking a coca cola is a bit of an oversimplification of my work.

It's more than that of course. I was running low on analogies and it's the best way I can describe keeping your emotions out of the process. It's hard. But it's so necessary.

Many times, coaches refuse to release athletes out of pure emotion. Not for any other reasoning. That's not okay. You know?

 

[just_kay_today]

I know I already answered but presentation is EVERYTHING. Ive once in my life had someone quit with dignity. ONCE. Typically its an email or text saying I quit only to hop on social media to see libel/slander and craziness. At that point… No. You're not released. And no, I don't feel bad. :)

I've seen that too. If my child is on a senior team she wants to leave, I believe she has to tell her coach that she is leaving. No text, no email. If you cannot do it face-to-face, then you really don't want to leave. You are on a SENIOR team. Mommy doesn't speak for you anymore. To me, that's one of those life lessons.

But, I'm not referring to those messy situations. These gyms will not sign the release to spite the mega gym and it has nothing to do with the athlete. It has more to do with keeping that athlete's talents off of a World's team. If as a family, we see that this season, the coaching at the gym is lacking, the morale is low, or my child wants new challenges or to go to new competitions, after the first or second competition, why should she be held hostage because you don't like the gym we chose. I don't care if it's for 5 minutes. It's like playing chess with a person's life. It reeks of the manipulation and victimization of children and therefore, I hate it.

 

[Abcdefg]

I know I already answered but presentation is EVERYTHING. Ive once in my life had someone quit with dignity. ONCE. Typically its an email or text saying I quit only to hop on social media to see libel/slander and craziness. At that point… No. You're not released. And no, I don't feel bad. :)

i dont quite understand the logic of this. is it a way of getting back at the athlete?

 

[Klynn641]

Yes. We actually replaced an athlete on Tuesday this week. This athlete happened to be replaced by an athlete who came in to our program a month ago. Tons of talent and the new athlete worked to get conditioned and ready to compete. Replaced athlete was not throwing skills required. Replaced athlete quit. By replaced, I mean the athlete was an alternate. We also have other alternates on the team. (3 total to be exact, three now since they quit). Every single alternate has competed on the mat with the team when we got our Partial Paid and when we got our Full Paid. I teach the kids about accountability and keeping their skills up to par. We made it clear at the beginning of the year there would be alternates on the team and the 'Best 19' will always be on the mat. The best 19 have rotated all year long. As we prep for Worlds, we replaced an athlete Tuesday and if need be, we will replace an athlete tomorrow if need be. Point is, its the best our program has looked and our kids are eager. Its a great competitive environment. If an alternate wanted a release form a week before Worlds, and AGAIN, sat down in a professional setting stating why, etc. - I would probably give it.

I have a question unrelated to the release issue. I'm not criticizing,the above noted gym. But, can someone explain how the following is okay. I'll preface my comment with the fact that I understand the gym is a business. And I understand the gym has a right to replace non performers. I even believe to not replace a non performer on a team isn't fair to the rest of the team.

But what doesn't set well with me, is when a gym brings someone in late in the season and promptly usurps someone who has been there and working hard on the team for the last six months. Doesn't that result in resentment from the athletes who have invested tuition, sweat and tears for the last six months to earn their spot, only to have someone walk thru the door with better skills and get replaced. Is it just that simple ?

If I was an athlete replaced in such a manner, I would be resentful. And probably quit the gym as well. It would seem that for a gym to do this it would undermine the trust and loyalty between the athletes and their coaches. It's one thing to replace an athlete with one that's in-house but to bring in someone with no vested time at the gym seems wrong. If we're talking a Worlds team, late in the season and there's been an unexpected injury when suddenly an elite athlete with Worlds experience miraculously appears at your door, I understand bringing them on board. But in my experience that's not usually the case. I've seen this happen mostly on level 3/4 teams at gyms that currently have teams on all levels from which to draw athletes.

Maybe it seems a bigger deal to me than it really is. Can someone explain why a gym would do this ? Other than the obvious...cuz they can.

I've noticed


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[Fiercecheermom]

You are correct.

Very interesting and thanks for the info!!!

 

[Fiercecheermom]

In response to gyms not fulfilling their end of the contract, last I checked you signed up to cheer for XYZ Allstars. You didn't sign up for XYZ Allstars Senior large coed 5. The gym owes you no right to the team you feel you should be on. It's their team. If they decide its in the best interest to make an XYZ small coed 5 and XYZ small coed 4, that's in their right and doesn't do anything wrong according to the contract. They may move you to another team that you may or may not like, but again you only signed up to cheer in the program. There was no contract for that one team.


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Ummm no...if that was the case we would all sign up PRIOR to tryouts with our favorite gyms. We sign up based on the results of tryouts with the best team for our athlete. When we sign a contract, it is based on the facts at the time...ie: team/nights of practice/cost. When these type of changes occur, even if it is best for the gym/team/coaches etc, then those affected athletes/parents should not be held "hostage" if this is not what they are interested in. Again...we are the customers, I wouldn't ask for my money back, but when you change the rules of the game, we should be allowed to opt out of the game. Again, all of this would be predicated on the fact that my athlete retained all of her skills since tryouts.

 

[Rudags]

I have a question unrelated to the release issue. I'm not criticizing,the above noted gym. But, can someone explain how the following is okay. I'll preface my comment with the fact that I understand the gym is a business. And I understand the gym has a right to replace non performers. I even believe to not replace a non performer on a team isn't fair to the rest of the team.

But what doesn't set well with me, is when a gym brings someone in late in the season and promptly usurps someone who has been there and working hard on the team for the last six months. Doesn't that result in resentment from the athletes who have invested tuition, sweat and tears for the last six months to earn their spot, only to have someone walk thru the door with better skills and get replaced. Is it just that simple ?

If I was an athlete replaced in such a manner, I would be resentful. And probably quit the gym as well. It would seem that for a gym to do this it would undermine the trust and loyalty between the athletes and their coaches. It's one thing to replace an athlete with one that's in-house but to bring in someone with no vested time at the gym seems wrong. If we're talking a Worlds team, late in the season and there's been an unexpected injury when suddenly an elite athlete with Worlds experience miraculously appears at your door, I understand bringing them on board. But in my experience that's not usually the case. I've seen this happen mostly on level 3/4 teams at gyms that currently have teams on all levels from which to draw athletes.

Maybe it seems a bigger deal to me than it really is. Can someone explain why a gym would do this ? Other than the obvious...cuz they can.

I've noticed


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We don't 'bring anyone in' but if an athlete walks through our door, we will place them accordingly. There is no resentment because we have alternates even at the beginning of the season. Everyone knows up front that the best X amount of athletes will be who comps. We also have a family mentality and show a bigger picture. Their is accountability. I can tell you we have had athletes with double fulls as alternates, while a girl on the mat may only have a layout. There is a lot that goes into a routine vs just tumbling. Being on our team is about doing your job and accountability. We have a girl on my Worlds team with Jumps to tuck and a great base. Her role on the team is to do jumps to tuck and keep every stunt up in the air. She is the only girl on the mat without a full and her spot has not been up for grabs all year. Why? Because she is doing what she needs to do. I did have a girl with a standing full and a double full and she had a nasty attitude and sense of entitlement. She is no longer in our program and was replaced prior to a Worlds bid comp that made her quit.

I am talking opening what we do at our gym following the models of some gyms that I deem as successful. I don't ask anyone to agree or disagree with what we do, I am telling you it works for us. I can also tell you, as a business, we have had more people walk in our doors knowing that we will ALWAYS hold kids accountable and do whats best for each individual kid. Other gyms in our area will not replace people not doing their jobs and it shows.

You may not be meaning it like this, but I am taking it like you are assuming I just throw kids on our team that walk in our door because they have a double and replace kids that don't. Thats not the case. Just because you have a double full does not mean you can base a double up. I put a lot of time and effort into selecting my teams (not just Worlds) and in my own little world - this has been our gyms most successful year to date. If you are on the team to be a flyer, and you no longer can do what I am asking and someone else can, there is a switch to be made. We also do "Team Shifts" throughout the year where you essentially get a report card saying what needs to be improved and says you may be in danger or losing your spot.

 

[Rudags]

i dont quite understand the logic of this. is it a way of getting back at the athlete?

I suppose that is a way some may look at it but I prefer to view it as having the best interest of the other members of the team that have to pick up the slack for lack of commitment. Again, if someone has an issue and wants to handle it in a professional setting, you will get a release from me. Problem is how kids are taught to handle their issues is crying to mom and dad and posting on social media exaggerated statements.

 

[CheerBank]

@Rudags I think the fact that you do things like a report card lets athletes and parents know where they stand on an ongoing basis, and it is that communication coupled with the knowledge of the accountability from the get-go you have mentioned that allows your program to change athletes on a team without resentment (or if they resent it, they do not stay). If it was done randomly and without ample warning, I could see people having greater issue with it, but it sounds like everyone knows from the start what is expected of them and where they stand. Well done.

 

[Rudags]

I've seen that too. If my child is on a senior team she wants to leave, I believe she has to tell her coach that she is leaving. No text, no email. If you cannot do it face-to-face, then you really don't want to leave. You are on a SENIOR team. Mommy doesn't speak for you anymore. To me, that's one of those life lessons.

But, I'm not referring to those messy situations. These gyms will not sign the release to spite the mega gym and it has nothing to do with the athlete. It has more to do with keeping that athlete's talents off of a World's team. If as a family, we see that this season, the coaching at the gym is lacking, the morale is low, or my child wants new challenges or to go to new competitions, after the first or second competition, why should she be held hostage because you don't like the gym we chose. I don't care if it's for 5 minutes. It's like playing chess with a person's life. It reeks of the manipulation and victimization of children and therefore, I hate it.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Its all so circumstantial. Playing devils advocate, If Worlds was SOOOO important to someone that they wanted to jump ship, then maybe they didnt do enough research before picking their gym. Assuming tryouts are in May and you need to leave your gym before November, you have a HALF OF A YEAR to decide if the gym is working. 6 months. And if its not working, why not finish the last 5?

I can tell you I have heard of a lot of "spiteful" non release stories but sometimes (most of the time, IMO) I feel there is more to the story than what goes to the public eye. Kids and families bash gyms for not releasing and ethically, I don't think gyms can bring up financial obligations still owed and the "Real" gym owner side of the story.

I think that everyone pretty much knows about the release rule, so if you are choosing to leave a gym, you know the chances are you might not get released, and again, is 6 months not enough time to decide if its a fit?

 

[Rudags]

@Rudags I think the fact that you do things like a report card lets athletes and parents know where they stand on an ongoing basis, and it is that communication coupled with the knowledge of the accountability from the get-go you have mentioned that allows your program to change athletes on a team without resentment (or if they resent it, they do not stay). If it was done randomly and without ample warning, I could see people having greater issue with it, but it sounds like everyone knows from the start what is expected of them and where they stand. Well done.

Thank you. Its still a work in progress. We adapted several notes from programs like CEA, Ultimate Athletics, ACX, etc. on how they do things and tried to create something that would work for us. I will tell you it has been our best year to date and kids are learning a lot (not just about cheer, but about life, accountability, hard work, consequence, etc). We want to take our gym to the next level we felt we have the tools to learn from other. I think our ideas will continue to evolve but for now everything seems to be falling into place.