All-Star Replacing Athletes With New Athletes...

[cheer25mom]

My comment didn't touch on the alleged mental abuse, and I said the situation on comp day hsould have and could have been handled much differently.

What I got from the post is that this has been a reoccurring issue it wasn't that CP just randomly blocked out of her pass and day 1 and was replaced this was a reoccurring situation. It doesn't matter the point lead as a coach if I have 15 2 to tucks for a section I need to see 15 2 to tucks go when they are supposed to go when little Suzy blocks it changes the entire visual of that section, and omitted passes can be used against you on the score sheet.

As teams prepare for year end events coaches have to put their best 25 kids on the mat and as soon as possible so by the time Worlds/ Summit rolls around it becomes muscle memory.

If it was a recurrent of issue, why not handle it at home before they take the mat? Once they got there, they were ahead by over 4 points. Why was it necessary to pull her between day 1 and 2 if they were ahead by that much?


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[FamousxMindset]

If it was a recurrent of issue, why not handle it at home before they take the mat? Once they got there, they were ahead by over 4 points. Why was it necessary to pull her between day 1 and 2 if they were ahead by that much?


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Again, I agree it could've been handled differently. Maybe this was CP's last chance in the coach's mind. When you block at Summit or Worlds you may not be given a day 2 chance maybe that's what the gym wanted to stress to the athletes. It doesn't matter how many points they were ahead the skill was put in the routine, the skills was not thrown in the routine, hence changing the routine. A routine is a canvas for the coach you don't tell the painter where to paint or what colors to use and my kids aren't going to tell me what skills they aren't going to throw.

 

[cheer25mom]

Again, I agree it could've been handled differently. Maybe this was CP's last chance in the coach's mind. When you block at Summit or Worlds you may not be given a day 2 chance maybe that's what the gym wanted to stress to the athletes. It doesn't matter how many points they were ahead the skill was put in the routine, the skills was not thrown in the routine, hence changing the routine. A routine is a canvas for the coach you don't tell the painter where to paint or what colors to use and my kids aren't going to tell me what skills they aren't going to throw.

Kids are more important than the canvas


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[quietmom]

Begging or no begging, no athlete should cross over to 3 or more teams. Two should be the limit for safety and scheduling reasons. It's the responsibility of the coaches to tell the athlete no and set limits even if the athletes beg for it. After all, they are the adults and the ones with wisdom and experience.

 

[FamousxMindset]

Kids are more important than the canvas


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Kids have to be held accountable, and you're right I am going to protect my 25 other kids that are doing everything I have asked of them and if that means hold yours accountable for their mistakes best believe I'll do it.

 

[SL&AM]

Kids have to be held accountable, and you're right I am going to protect my 25 other kids that are doing everything I have asked of them and if that means hold yours accountable for their mistakes best believe I'll do it.

How many mistakes does it take for you to pull an athlete from day 1 to day 2 at a competition?

 

[omgitssydthekid]

Kids have to be held accountable, and you're right I am going to protect my 25 other kids that are doing everything I have asked of them and if that means hold yours accountable for their mistakes best believe I'll do it.

As a coach, I agree with you.

But what is the point of keeping a kid in a pass that has been blocking in the pass? You KNOW she is going to block. You KNOW she isn't going to throw it. If you know these things ahead of time, and choose to keep her in that pass anyway, that is your fault as a coach. You don't get to be pissed when she doesn't throw it in competition.

*obviously not aimed at you since you aren't the coach of the team in question*


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[cheer25mom]

Kids have to be held accountable, and you're right I am going to protect my 25 other kids that are doing everything I have asked of them and if that means hold yours accountable for their mistakes best believe I'll do it.

But are those kids really best served by seeing you emotionally destroy their teammate by pulling them between day one and day 2 in a competition where they know as well as you do that it won't make a difference? Especially when you could have handled this before ever setting foot on the floor but chose not to. Holding a kids accountable should definitely happen, at the gym, every day. I wouldn't have a problem with any coach pulling my kid from a tumbling pass, stunt, or routine because her performance was hurting the rest of the team. What I WOULD have a problem with is her coach choosing not to do that, until the middle of a 2 day competition when we were in first by a mile. At that point it isn't about the rest of the team any more. Tt's about making a point to that parent and child.

 

[FamousxMindset]

How many mistakes does it take for you to pull an athlete from day 1 to day 2 at a competition?

It wasn't a simple mistake, not setting properly and touching out of a pass is a mistake those things happen. Purposely not even attempting a pass is something different IMO I personally would have already pulled her or took her out but every situation is different. And none of us here can truly conceptualize every aspect of this incident including the OP in all honesty.

As a coach, I agree with you.

But what is the point of keeping a kid in a pass that has been blocking in the pass? You KNOW she is going to block. You KNOW she isn't going to throw it. If you know these things ahead of time, and choose to keep her in that pass anyway, that is your fault as a coach. You don't get to be pissed when she doesn't throw it in competition.

*obviously not aimed at you since you aren't the coach of the team in question*

Agreed I don't know if she always blocked, or just blocked sometimes, or just on actual comp day. However, I do give my kids chances especially when its something that they are capable of and maybe this was the final straw.

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But are those kids really best served by seeing you emotionally destroy their teammate by pulling them between day one and day 2 in a competition where they know as well as you do that it won't make a difference? Especially when you could have handled this before ever setting foot on the floor but chose not to. Holding a kids accountable should definitely happen, at the gym, every day. I wouldn't have a problem with any coach pulling my kid from a tumbling pass, stunt, or routine because her performance was hurting the rest of the team. What I WOULD have a problem with is her coach choosing not to do that, until the middle of a 2 day competition when we were in first by a mile. At that point it isn't about the rest of the team any more. Tt's about making a point to that parent and child.

It's always making a point to the parent and child and every other parent and child in the gym. When a kid does not do what they have been choreographed to do there are repercussions whether it be conditioning, dialogue with the parent, or removal from the team. I actually know for a fact that is listed in the contract that all CEA parents sign and turn in at tryouts.

Also I think kids are a lot tougher than society gives them credit for, most are able to piece together cause and effect. At the next practice the kids will see the staff fill her old spots etc and it will recollect to them " I better do my job, so I'm not next." I don't believe in empty threats, I don't bluff. We are looking at this situation from two very different sides and its very likely we won't agree on this lol. My only thing is don't make the coach out to be a monster when your kid doesn't do their job.

 

[cheerisloving]

Also I think kids are a lot tougher than society gives them credit for, most are able to piece together cause and effect. At the next practice the kids will see the staff fill her old spots etc and it will recollect to them " I better do my job, so I'm not next." I don't believe in empty threats, I don't bluff. We are looking at this situation from two very different sides and its very likely we won't agree on this lol. My only thing is don't make the coach out to be a monster when your kid doesn't do their job.

Kids are tough and they can piece together cause and effect. Sometimes not throwing a skill is not so much they're too scared but more like they don't want to cost the team a win for a mistake they've made. I mean I've balked at a pass because I wasn't sure I could land it and rather than get a deduction by busting, I made the decision to not throw it. And my coach was happy for it. Then she choreographed me to do something I could hit. Eventually I worked past my block and the original choreo was added back.

I agree, hold a child accountable, as it is a life lesson to learn. Like we've said already in the real world not doing your job can cost you. But you don't fire someone in the middle of their job. And really, cheerleading is not a child's job and a coach is not their boss. This sport is serious but a boss doesn't have a responsibility for your development as a person, a coach does. And when people are paying to participate, they have the right to be upset when things are not handled correctly. I'm not a parent but I know my mother and father would be livid if they travelled to Atlanta or Dallas for me to compete and I get pulled for a known issue.

 

[omgitssydthekid]

It wasn't a simple mistake, not setting properly and touching out of a pass is a mistake those things happen. Purposely not even attempting a pass is something different IMO I personally would have already pulled her or took her out but every situation is different. And none of us here can truly conceptualize every aspect of this incident including the OP in all honesty.




Agreed I don't know if she always blocked, or just blocked sometimes, or just on actual comp day. However, I do give my kids chances especially when its something that they are capable of and maybe this was the final straw.

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It's always making a point to the parent and child and every other parent and child in the gym. When a kid does not do what they have been choreographed to do there are repercussions whether it be conditioning, dialogue with the parent, or removal from the team. I actually know for a fact that is listed in the contract that all CEA parents sign and turn in at tryouts.

Also I think kids are a lot tougher than society gives them credit for, most are able to piece together cause and effect. At the next practice the kids will see the staff fill her old spots etc and it will recollect to them " I better do my job, so I'm not next." I don't believe in empty threats, I don't bluff. We are looking at this situation from two very different sides and its very likely we won't agree on this lol. My only thing is don't make the coach out to be a monster when your kid doesn't do their job.[/QUOTE]

Children are far tougher than we give them credit for, they will almost always rise to your expectations.

However, if you know a child isn't going to throw the pass, and you keep them in the pass (or on the team) and they don't throw it at competition because they have a mental block, you aren't allowed to be pissed at the child.

You kept them in the pass (or on the team) knowing they wouldn't throw it. It's on you at that point.

Pull the pass or pull them off the team at home. A competition isn't the place for that. I have no issues removing a child from the team if they aren't doing their job, but doing it at a competition is completely inappropriate. Especially because it had been an issue back at the gym.


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[cheer25mom]

It's always making a point to the parent and child and every other parent and child in the gym. When a kid does not do what they have been choreographed to do there are repercussions whether it be conditioning, dialogue with the parent, or removal from the team. I actually know for a fact that is listed in the contract that all CEA parents sign and turn in at tryouts.

Also I think kids are a lot tougher than society gives them credit for, most are able to piece together cause and effect. At the next practice the kids will see the staff fill her old spots etc and it will recollect to them " I better do my job, so I'm not next." I don't believe in empty threats, I don't bluff. We are looking at this situation from two very different sides and its very likely we won't agree on this lol. My only thing is don't make the coach out to be a monster when your kid doesn't do their job.

IMO, you don't ever take advantage of one child to make a point to the others. That is just bad coaching. Ruling by fear is never the answer. Long term it always falls apart. Having the kid's respect is much more important, and you gain respect by being fair and consistent, not by cutting a kid in the middle of a comp to instill fear in the others. I get that you are trying to defend the coach here, but you have to acknowledge that sometimes coaches do make bad decisions, just like parents.

 

[cheer25mom]

Kids are tough and they can piece together cause and effect. Sometimes not throwing a skill is not so much they're too scared but more like they don't want to cost the team a win for a mistake they've made. I mean I've balked at a pass because I wasn't sure I could land it and rather than get a deduction by busting, I made the decision to not throw it. And my coach was happy for it. Then she choreographed me to do something I could hit. Eventually I worked past my block and the original choreo was added back.

My kid has made this decision on the mat. An error earlier in the routine meant the timing was off, and rather than going and possible colliding with another athlete, she omitted her pass, getting everyone back on time. Her coach also thanked her. Had she been afraid to do that, it could have meant a deduction, or worse, an injury.

 

[123jump4!]

It's not like a kid is on a worlds team at a big comp thinking: "Oh I'm feeling a bit lazy today, maybe I won't throw my pass... wait, hold on, Suzy was just pulled off the team for not throwing hers, I better do mine so it doesn't happen to me!" :eek:

I agree ruling by fear is not a good idea.

 

[cheerisloving]

My kid has made this decision on the mat. An error earlier in the routine meant the timing was off, and rather than going and possible colliding with another athlete, she omitted her pass, getting everyone back on time. Her coach also thanked her. Had she been afraid to do that, it could have meant a deduction, or worse, an injury.

I did this twice and every time my coach was thankful. She said she appreciated me going out and making a mature decision for the sake of the team.

It's not like a kid is on a worlds team at a big comp thinking: "Oh I'm feeling a bit lazy today, maybe I won't throw my pass... wait, hold on, Suzy was just pulled off the team for not throwing hers, I better do mine so it doesn't happen to me!" :eek:

I agree ruling by fear is not a good idea.

Ruling by fear is never the right thing to do. You want kids doing things because they're afraid of their coach? In the grand scheme of making kids stronger that is not going to help. If that only adds pressure to not mess up.