All-Star Scores Vs. Number Of Skills - Nca Nationals

[Deleted member 15]

1. I think a judges association and scoring system should be separate from EP involvement.
2. Yes


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1. That's not a reality now and won't be in the immediate future. What do we do until it is?

2. Interesting. We disagree on this one.

 

[Deleted member 15]

1. I think a judges association and scoring system should be separate from EP involvement.
2. Yes


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1. The scoring system being separated from the EPs is not a reality now and won't be in the immediate future. What do we do until it is?

2. Interesting. We disagree on this one.

 

[King]

1. The scoring system being separated from the EPs is not a reality now and won't be in the immediate future. What do we do until it is?

2. Interesting. We disagree on this one.

The question is: Why do EPs (who's biggest concern is making the customer happy and come back) have control of the scoresheets when proper scoring and final placement of teams can make teams unhappy when done correctly? It means EPs have a conflict of interest. That does not mean EPs are evil, it means we should not expect them to score correctly for the sake of scoring because it might affect business.

 

[Deleted member 15]

The question is: Why do EPs (who's biggest concern is making the customer happy and come back) have control of the scoresheets when proper scoring and final placement of teams can make teams unhappy when done correctly? It means EPs have a conflict of interest. That does not mean EPs are evil, it means we should not expect them to score correctly for the sake of scoring because it might affect business.

Because there wasn't another alternative once upon a time and the EPs haven't relinquished control since there has been an alternative. I'd also guess no one has actually proposed a scoring system to be adopted by all, instead just throwing out the idea one is needed.

 

[King]

Because there wasn't another alternative once upon a time and the EPs haven't relinquished control since there has been an alternative. I'd also guess no one has actually proposed a scoring system to be adopted by all, instead just throwing out the idea one is needed.

I do understand the origins. Maybe I'm speaking in the sense that 'Now that we know better we should do better.'

I am already considering of asking formally (and posting on here) that college scoresheets be the exact same as level 6 Allstar. And then posting responses on here.

As for Jamfest I guess why not ask why not use varsity for consistency and them we can move to universal scoring.

What's the email? Ill send today and ask.


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[yojaehs]

All dreams of a judges association start with a Universal Score Sheet. BlueCat even recommended a system that would allow EP to weight different sections of the score sheet per event while keeping the Universal Score Sheet. I just don't get why this has been begged for for years but still hasn't happened!?


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[King]

Maybe this should be on the list of questions ?


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[cheerislife1]

I agree with everything you're proposing. Prime example: (and this is using my own team as a negative example)

This past weekend at UCA my Senior 3 had a very rough weekend. Deduction city day one, and a hefty accidental legality day two. On day one we dropped a stunt, and bobbled two. We scored a 0.8 on technique. We had a bust and three touches in running tumbling and scored a 0.85 on technique. In that same token, we were only deducted for one bust (fall to knees) but was counted as a touch, and one fall. No one in the division scored a perfect 1.0 on technique on day one. According to these scores my team was technically just as good as every other team in the division (with many of them hitting).

Day two we went out and hit a clean routine minus one touch, and the legality of course. Our technique stayed the same for the most part, a few categories going up to 0.9. USA Wildcats hit a routine of a life time and were visibly light years ahead of my team in technique yet we stayed with in a tenth of them.

My difficulty scores were pretty spot on. We throw what we can and were rewarded proper points. My issue being here that I believe judges spent a majority of that 2 1/2 minutes calculating difficulty that the technique score became and after thought. I see how the importance may have been put on difficulty scoring as it gives a max of 6 points per category as opposed to technique which only gives a Max
of 1. In this particular division difficulty was pretty even across the board and technique made all the difference. I think accurate technique scores really could have swayed some placements. I agree with scoring for USA and myself(1st and 6th place finishers) A lot of the in between teams just seemed really off. I'm not clear with my own team how 3 stunt errors (one major) and 3 major tumbling issues equals the high end of technique. Also this is our second time on this score sheet, and the second time we have had multiple deductions missed.

Something needs to change. I love this scoresheet...I just think something needs to change to make it more accurate. Without the legality my team
would have moved to third and beat teams we had no business beating with the number of deductions and poor execution we had this past weekend.

i think the scoring in our division at uca was very off. we (usa wildcats) had a really off day on day 1. we had 3 tumbling busts and 1 fall and only got 1 point in deductions for 2 tumbling touches. it makes you wonder what the deduction judges are looking at. (Thats a whole other topic i wont even get into,) but all the scores on day 1 were pretty close. we were in 5th and only .6 away from first. i don't get how some of the teams difficulty in stunting and in pyramids was beating ours. the team that was in first on day 1 didn't have any where near the difficulty we had but were scoring higher. i was really worried going into day 2 because we did not do good at all day 1 but we had really high scores. i didn't see how we could move up that much. we actually ended up moving up almost 2 points and winning. i did agree for the most part with our scores for day 2 but i still didn't agree with the other teams scores. Stingrays did not do ONE level appropriate connected realease move or inversion in their pyramid. they only hit 3 structures and one of them was a level 2 structure. My team does 4 structures and 7 level appropriate skills. But they scored higher than us. Even our stunts were alot more difficult that theirs but they still scored higher than us in that too. i really didn't understand that. i think they were a very good team and were crazy clean and i would understand if their technique scores were higher but their difficulty scores should not have been higher than ours.

Overall the scoring at UCA was very off. I don't think we will be returning there because of that reason.

 

[Deleted member 15]

All dreams of a judges association start with a Universal Score Sheet. BlueCat even recommended a system that would allow EP to weight different sections of the score sheet per event while keeping the Universal Score Sheet. I just don't get why this has been begged for for years but still hasn't happened!?


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Isn't it now in the hands of the NACCC to create the scoring system they want adopted? I honesty don't think a system has been written out and proposed for adoption. Didn't the IEP say they'd adopt whatever was proposed and they haven't adopted anything yet.

There have been a whole lot of people saying they want a universal score sheet as a general idea (or any of a number of ideas that that get people charged up for a while), but then those people sit back and wait for someone else to do it. I'm thinking if you really want one you need to create one.

 

[BlueCat]

Maybe this should be on the list of questions ?


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Done.

 

[King]

Done.

Is plans to make rules and scoresheets similar in college / level 6 (outside of the tumbling rules) going to happen? If so why not next year?

Is that relevant?


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[newcheerdad]

Isn't it now in the hands of the NACCC to create the scoring system they want adopted? I honesty don't think a system has been written out and proposed for adoption. Didn't the IEP say they'd adopt whatever was proposed and they haven't adopted anything yet.

There have been a whole lot of people saying they want a universal score sheet as a general idea (or any of a number of ideas that that get people charged up for a while), but then those people sit back and wait for someone else to do it. I'm thinking if you really want one you need to create one.

There has to be some agreement that a universal score sheet is needed before you can take the step to actually create one.

Let's face it - if that doesn't happen, EP's will still use scoresheets as a way to differentiate their product. And that's no good.

 

[Deleted member 15]

There has to be some agreement that a universal score sheet is needed before you can take the step to actually create one.

Why?

 

[newcheerdad]

Why?

Because it won't get done otherwise. If the coaches agreed on a scoresheet, do you honestly think EP's would agree to it? Event producers brand and market their own scoring rubrics ("the Jam Score") and are going to want their imprint on any scoresheet that comes about. Plus they hold the preponderance of influence on the USASF board that could basically shoot down any universal scoring rubric that comes about without their input. And in that regard, you can forget a scoresheet coming from Varsity or Jamfest - that would probably be politically toxic.

So unless the key stakeholders are involved and agree to the mission, it's a pointless exercise to create a rubric or scoresheet. Creating the 'straw man' point of departure is the easy part. It's building consensus and putting organization and structure around the management of the rubric that would be the major challenge.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Because it won't get done otherwise. If the coaches agreed on a scoresheet, do you honestly think EP's would agree to it? Event producers brand and market their own scoring rubrics ("the Jam Score") and are going to want their imprint on any scoresheet that comes about. Plus they hold the preponderance of influence on the USASF board that could basically shoot down any universal scoring rubric that comes about without their input. And in that regard, you can forget a scoresheet coming from Varsity or Jamfest - that would probably be politically toxic.

So unless the key stakeholders are involved and agree to the mission, it's a pointless exercise to create a rubric or scoresheet. Creating the 'straw man' point of departure is the easy part. It's building consensus and putting organization and structure around the management of the rubric that would be the major challenge.

I think the coaches creating one and presenting it to the EPs has a better chance than no one creating one and presenting it to the EPs, which is what's happening now.