All-Star Showcases

[Keep_Believing]

There are positives to crossing over, I'm not denying that. But IMO there is a point where it becomes excessive, and filling lower level teams with Worlds athletes is definitely not something I am fond of. Though the latter has been decreased in recent years due to rule changes that were for the better.

Smoex has medalled before and they have been successful at other locations, never said or implied otherwise. Not sure if that part was directed to what I said.

I will say the last 4-5 years or so have been better, mostly due to changes in rules that eliminated many things they had been doing.
Not intending to put them down, they are a very talented gym, just trying to put out where people may be coming from. Not my cup of tea, but it works for some people.

Sorry, didn’t mean it directed at you. Just joining the conversation in general.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Sorry, didn’t mean it directed at you. Just joining the conversation in general.

Gotcha!

 

[Sterling von Shimmer]

I don't typically fault athletes, but sometimes a pattern can definitely develop. But even just things the gym/coaches have done over the years. Excessive use of crossovers to the point of having to have Summit tryouts because you have too many, putting higher level athletes on lower level teams always gets me, putting very skilled athletes on multiple Worlds teams just to secure a bid, then replace them (thankfully that has been diminished due to the rules), etc. Clearly it works for them, but being so open about everything and putting yourselves out there all the time will open you up for more scrutiny when you do things that many people just don't agree with.

I can’t fault a program for working within the rules, though. Yes what CEA does is a bit exploitative and yes I’m tired of seeing their Worlds athletes on lower level teams that they’ve clearly outgrown, but hey... it’s not illegal, so it’s not a problem.

Also lower level crossovers allow kids to be on more than one competitive team at a time since you’re only allowed one Worlds team. Which I think is important. If I’m RC, only training for one team with one practice a week would not be enough for me, not even with privates added on. I’d be hungrier for so much more. Crossing over to a competitive lower level team — even though it’s not as challenging — allows Worlds kids more training and experience that isn’t just throwing baskets for thirty minutes.

So I get both sides. It’s not how I’d run a program, but I definitely see the why behind it.

 

[luv2cheer92]

I can’t fault a program for working within the rules, though. Yes what CEA does is a bit exploitative and yes I’m tired of seeing their Worlds athletes on lower level teams that they’ve clearly outgrown, but hey... it’s not illegal, so it’s not a problem.

Also lower level crossovers allow kids to be on more than one competitive team at a time since you’re only allowed one Worlds team. Which I think is important. If I’m RC, only training for one team with one practice a week would not be enough for me, not even with privates added on. I’d be hungrier for so much more. Crossing over to a competitive lower level team — even though it’s not as challenging — allows Worlds kids more training and experience that isn’t just throwing baskets for thirty minutes.

So I get both sides. It’s not how I’d run a program, but I definitely see the why behind it.

For me legal does not equal ethical or right. It's a fine line, some are ok with it, others aren't. I'm just glad many of the loopholes or rules that have been exploited are now illegal, or at least significantly reduced. And just because it's legal doesn't mean everyone is going to agree it.

 

[cheermomforever]

I can’t fault a program for working within the rules, though. Yes what CEA does is a bit exploitative and yes I’m tired of seeing their Worlds athletes on lower level teams that they’ve clearly outgrown, but hey... it’s not illegal, so it’s not a problem.

Also lower level crossovers allow kids to be on more than one competitive team at a time since you’re only allowed one Worlds team. Which I think is important. If I’m RC, only training for one team with one practice a week would not be enough for me, not even with privates added on. I’d be hungrier for so much more. Crossing over to a competitive lower level team — even though it’s not as challenging — allows Worlds kids more training and experience that isn’t just throwing baskets for thirty minutes.

So I get both sides. It’s not how I’d run a program, but I definitely see the why behind it.

not that at it is illegal, but if you have 8 or more Worlds athlete crossovers on a summit team or crossing to other World teams until "tryouts" in March then.......I think most gyms have the legal 5 and under on Summit teams...

 

[Sterling von Shimmer]

not that at it is illegal, but if you have 8 or more Worlds athlete crossovers on a summit team or crossing to other World teams until "tryouts" in March then.......I think most gyms have the legal 5 and under on Summit teams...

Yeah like I said it’s not how I’d run a program. Seems super convoluted and exploitative to me to do all that when you could just... train your athletes the right way the first time instead of replacing/supplanting them through the year to get to your endgame. That just seems like a bunch of unnecessary headaches.

But — however I feel about it — it’s legal, and others are free to take advantage of the same loophole if they want. Would I like to see it changed in the future? Sure. But there are already so many problems to be mad at in cheer culture, I’m not going to get too upset with someone for playing by the rules they’re given.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I do think there is some value to that crossover model in situations where -

1. You have exclusively been in one position but cross to another team to learn to do something else.

Ex: The "fly on Worlds team and base on J6" model.

2. You have higher level skills in one area but not so much in another, and don't necessarily want higher level skills to go waste. Especially if no other appropriate teams exist.

Ex: Tumble on Y5 and fly on Y3 because you want to be able to actually compete your level 5 tumbling skills but you're not quite a level 5 flyer yet.

 

[quitthedrama]

For me legal does not equal ethical or right. It's a fine line, some are ok with it, others aren't. I'm just glad many of the loopholes or rules that have been exploited are now illegal, or at least significantly reduced. And just because it's legal doesn't mean everyone is going to agree it.

You're biased towards CA and there's nothing wrong with that. I'll present a scenario that most people overlook. CA has about 1,000 athletes just in the Plano location alone. No gym has even close to that amount of athletes. Even with that they use many of the most elite college level athletes - including in the senior division, who stunt a level higher than the level they compete on at CA (and are obviously far more mature and competition savvy than a 14 year old). What's the difference?
I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but it's no different than what CEA does and the number of "crossovers" used is likely similar yet CEA has about 30% of the athletes to work with than CA has.

 

[luv2cheer92]

You're biased towards CA and there's nothing wrong with that. I'll present a scenario that most people overlook. CA has about 1,000 athletes just in the Plano location alone. No gym has even close to that amount of athletes. Even with that they use many of the most elite college level athletes - including in the senior division, who stunt a level higher than the level they compete on at CA (and are obviously far more mature and competition savvy than a 14 year old). What's the difference?
I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but it's no different than what CEA does and the number of "crossovers" used is likely similar yet CEA has about 30% of the athletes to work with than CA has.

Never said I was ok with that, and I'm not. Just answering the question that was asked. While I loved my one single season at CA to pieces, they still aren't my favorite gym and I really am not as biased towards them as you like to imply, so not sure why that gets brought up.

 

[UCFKnights07]

For me legal does not equal ethical or right. It's a fine line, some are ok with it, others aren't. I'm just glad many of the loopholes or rules that have been exploited are now illegal, or at least significantly reduced. And just because it's legal doesn't mean everyone is going to agree it.

im kinda indifferent. Some CEA locations arent in a major city or near one, Kville being one of them, so they have less athletes in general. They create teams with what the crossover rules allow. Same goes for any small gym in a smaller city or town.
are there gyms that probably purposely stack teams, sure. But im sure there are gyms who use the crossover rule to fill teams for the kids they dont want to turn away because they cant crossover or cant be on multiple levels due to skills.

 

[luv2cheer92]

im kinda indifferent. Some CEA locations arent in a major city or near one, Kville being one of them, so they have less athletes in general. They create teams with what the crossover rules allow. Same goes for any small gym in a smaller city or town.
are there gyms that probably purposely stack teams, sure. But im sure there are gyms who use the crossover rule to fill teams for the kids they dont want to turn away because they cant crossover or cant be on multiple levels due to skills.

Totally get that crossovers are needed in some situations and in smaller gyms.

 

[luv2cheer92]

I also feel like some of the disappointing actions/comments from certain gym owners and coaches this summer led to some negativity throughout social media. And before I'm accused of being biased again, that includes CA for sure.

Part of me wishes the boards had been as active as they were in the early 2010s this summer, those would have been some juicy threads haha.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Sidenote: I don't know that I actually realized how much of a small town the main CEA location's town is. Or what the cheer market in NC is like. It's somewhat sparse?

Disclaimer - I don't know a whole lot about NC outside of Charlotte and visiting there once so this is 10 min of lunchbreak googling here and not insider knowledge at all.

I googled Kernerville. Closest bigger cities are Winston-Salem and Greensboro.

I googled cheer gyms in Winston Salem - you get CEA Salem, Carolina Spirit (never heard of). But I am assuming no Worlds teams there.

Then I googled Greensboro cheer gyms - you get Greensboro AllStar (GAC), Cheer Elite something or other, and one other. I don't know if GAC has Worlds teams but I have heard of it on the boards before?

CEA is pretty much it unless you want to drive to RALEIGH which looks like almost 1.5 hours from Kernersville (and I don't know if traffic is a thing there to make it even longer.)

Even more interesting - even if you search gyms in Raleigh, you get a number of smaller gyms but again, the higher caliber D1 Worlds team gym is CEA Raleigh. I went as far out as CHARLOTTE where you do have CA, Charlotte All Stars, and another CEA location.

I even googled ROCKSTAR for the heck of it and their main location in SC is within a 3 hour drive if you're feeling up to it so it. There also appears to be one in Apex, NC as well?

So if a parent in that area is looking for a major D1 program with some measure of Worlds or Summit success, your options appear to be:

1. CEA Kern
2. Drive to CEA Raleigh
3. Drive to Charlotte for CAC or CA
4. Drive to Rockstar

*The smaller programs may be great but I don't live in NC so if any of them have amazing Summit teams pls comment!

 

[luv2cheer92]

Sidenote: I don't know that I actually realized how much of a small town the main CEA location's town is. Or what the cheer market in NC is like. It's somewhat sparse?

Disclaimer - I don't know a whole lot about NC outside of Charlotte and visiting there once so this is 10 min of lunchbreak googling here and not insider knowledge at all.

I googled Kernerville. Closest bigger cities are Winston-Salem and Greensboro.

I googled cheer gyms in Winston Salem - you get CEA Salem, Carolina Spirit (never heard of). But I am assuming no Worlds teams there.

Then I googled Greensboro cheer gyms - you get Greensboro AllStar (GAC), Cheer Elite something or other, and one other. I don't know if GAC has Worlds teams but I have heard of it on the boards before?

CEA is pretty much it unless you want to drive to RALEIGH which looks like almost 1.5 hours from Kernersville (and I don't know if traffic is a thing there to make it even longer.)

Even more interesting - even if you search gyms in Raleigh, you get a number of smaller gyms but again, the higher caliber D1 Worlds team gym is CEA Raleigh. I went as far out as CHARLOTTE where you do have CA, Charlotte All Stars, and another CEA location.

I even googled ROCKSTAR for the heck of it and their main location in SC is within a 3 hour drive if you're feeling up to it so it. There also appears to be one in Apex, NC as well?

So if a parent in that area is looking for a major D1 program with some measure of Worlds or Summit success, your options appear to be:

1. CEA Kern
2. Drive to CEA Raleigh
3. Drive to Charlotte for CAC or CA
4. Drive to Rockstar

*The smaller programs may be great but I don't live in NC so if any of them have amazing Summit teams pls comment!

CEA KVille is tiny

 

[wishfulthinking]

Does the Kernersville location only have 1 full-sized floor? I swear that's the only one we see during their videos. If that's true, that's incredibly efficient considering the amount of teams that location is juggling.