All-Star Small Coed 5

[AndrewSky]

soooooooo lol
i just want to see PCM place top3 :D

It's verrry possible. I think it all depends on who hits and who looks better hitting..lol

 

[Seeker30]

It's verrry possible. I think it all depends on who hits and who looks better hitting..lol

lol it always on who hits haha

 

[magical mom]

Exactly..... I wish everyone would "hit" so we can see who the true winner is. I guess in the mean time we will have to see who has the most difficulty with the majority hitting. Lol!!! Still rooting for PCM to get top 3 by hitting and having difficulty. Can't wait to see what happens in April :)

 

[Coach Troy]

I understand your thoughts and trust me I know...I won the United States Roller Skating Championships way back when and judged sports are always this way....but...I will never vote for a watered down easy routine for the sake of "perfection" after witnessing kids not make a worlds team because they don't have skills or watching my cp kill herself to get the standing full...I would rather see a team going for it than going to Worlds and watching level 5 send clean fulls...it might be just me too:/

But this happens so many times each year. I am firmly on your side that difficulty should trump "clean" (really what does that even mean...?? I think it's code for bad judges so they have something to say on a score sheet.)

 

[lacin123]

Based on the statement of your opinion, (which is contradictory in nature), I'd have to say that a lesson on scoring would do you wonders to understand why teams are able to absorb imperfections in their routine and still contend for a medal, or in some cases win all together.

Perhaps Coach Troy would be willing to educate you on the inner working of the scoring systems, as well as offer an explanation behind why a team that is so far ahead in many areas of the score sheet that they can absorb deductions, and still be successful in the final results.

Based on the statement of your opinion, (which is contradictory in nature), I'd have to say that a lesson on scoring would do you wonders to understand why teams are able to absorb imperfections in their routine and still contend for a medal, or in some cases win all together.

Perhaps Coach Troy would be willing to educate you on the inner working of the scoring systems, as well as offer an explanation behind why a team that is so far ahead in many areas of the score sheet that they can absorb deductions, and still be successful in the final results.

I believe what she is saying is that mistakes and deductions should be worth more points off the total score, so it would be impossible to win. If the fastest runner in the world is running a race but happens to fall, that runner will not win! If every team in a division falls, then, of course one of them should win. However, if every team hits, and one falls, whether they have more difficult skills or better execution, that team should automatically be taken out of the running for a win based on the points deducted from a fall. On a performance with a start value of 100, taking off a point or two for a fall is nothing. Falls should be 5-10 points off the total score. The score sheet is what needs to change. Not the spectators knowledge of the scoring!

 

[lakerfantlc]

I believe what she is saying is that mistakes and deductions should be worth more points off the total score, so it would be impossible to win. If the fastest runner in the world is running a race but happens to fall, that runner will not win! If every team in a division falls, then, of course one of them should win. However, if every team hits, and one falls, whether they have more difficult skills or better execution, that team should automatically be taken out of the running for a win based on the points deducted from a fall. On a performance with a start value of 100, taking off a point or two for a fall is nothing. Falls should be 5-10 points off the total score. The score sheet is what needs to change. Not the spectators knowledge of the scoring!

IMO....thats just not smart....so we would get amazing watered down routines...talk about killing the sport..what you said would do it

 

[AndrewSky]

IMO....thats just not smart....so we would get amazing watered down routines...talk about killing the sport..what you said would do it

There's a way to have difficulty and be clean. They're not oxymorons.

 

[p.o.k.]

Of course the point deduction would be relative to the overall point score to be attained at a particular competition. For example, Cheersport's deduction for stunt falls (not a bobble) was 5 points - published everywhere. Too bad the deduction was not applied consistently at that level for all teams in the competition - saw the scoresheets myself. So there in lies the problem with setting an arbitrary point value for falls. It depends on the event producer and point ranges and how the event producer wants to apply them. There will always be teams that push the envelope and perhaps that should be rewarded, but how do you get that without a consistent score sheet?

 

[lakerfantlc]

There's a way to have difficulty and be clean. They're not oxymorons.

OK....I know that and I agree...but that suggestion was crazy....I just will never prefer a team that is perfect at Worlds doing single fulls over a team that has majority doubles and makes a mistake...if we award the lesser team always because they took the safe route...the sport stalls...thats all....of course all of our teams strive for difficulty and perfection...but I would much rather see someone go for it than be safe...again...maybe it's me

 

[AndrewSky]

OK....I know that and I agree...but that suggestion was crazy....I just will never prefer a team that is perfect at Worlds doing single fulls over a team that has majority doubles and makes a mistake...if we award the lesser team always because they took the safe route...the sport stalls...thats all....of course all of our teams strive for difficulty and perfection...but I would much rather see someone go for it than be safe...again...maybe it's me

I really do understand what you're saying. And I somewhat agree. It all depends on the level/degree of mistake in my book. You know?

 

[lakerfantlc]

I really do understand what you're saying. And I somewhat agree. It all depends on the level/degree of mistake in my book. You know?

I think the point system works...the breakdown I believe is human and a drawback from judged sports...but a team that has maxed out the scorecard can sometimes absorb deductions...thats how it is and should be...IMO

 

[ICEDAD]

Of course the point deduction would be relative to the overall point score to be attained at a particular competition. For example, Cheersport's deduction for stunt falls (not a bobble) was 5 points - published everywhere. Too bad the deduction was not applied consistently at that level for all teams in the competition - saw the scoresheets myself. So there in lies the problem with setting an arbitrary point value for falls. It depends on the event producer and point ranges and how the event producer wants to apply them. There will always be teams that push the envelope and perhaps that should be rewarded, but how do you get that without a consistent score sheet?

I posted the following on another thread:
A long with video assisted judging, I believe All Star Cheer judges should be using a computer (not pen and paper). All judges’ scores should be time stamped and made public. This would eliminate the perception that EP’s and judges “review” scores before awards. Also, would make judges accountable by eliminating the perception that judges play favorites to programs (did choreography for this team, used to coach that team, had dinner with that owner, etc…). These may not be issues, but when dealing with subjective scoring sports (cheer, gymnastics, diving, etc,) people look for any excuse when they lose. By eliminating as many of these perceptions as possible you make the sport more legitimate.

 

[christina3655]

After watching NCA this weekend:

Smoed- The best overall routine.
Brandon- Stunts are killer if they hit.
ICE- Impressive 2nd day performance.
Smoke- Got the name and a good routine.
All Star Revolution- Solid routine
PCM- Good routine but would have loved to see PCM fighting it out with the big dogs in Dallas.

so because we couldnt afford to travel to dallas your gunna count pcm out...? def think they will be coming out of no where to surprise everyone..... fer sure in the top 5 ...maybe even top 3 depending how the perform at worlds

 

[christina3655]

Based on the statement of your opinion, (which is contradictory in nature), I'd have to say that a lesson on scoring would do you wonders to understand why teams are able to absorb imperfections in their routine and still contend for a medal, or in some cases win all together.

Perhaps Coach Troy would be willing to educate you on the inner working of the scoring systems, as well as offer an explanation behind why a team that is so far ahead in many areas of the score sheet that they can absorb deductions, and still be successful in the final results.

i have to say i agree with her though .....worlds is about being the BEST... i understand you can hit the score sheets well and max them out ....but its kinda like saying we can go out there and attempt skills we know we cant hit but because we attempted we get the points???.... is that fair to other teams that actually deserve to be at the top because they attempt these hard skills and actually hit them...??

To me the skill/talent isnt in ATTEMPTING the skill.....its perfecting it and perorming it without mistakes.... i think teams who do this should be rewarded

 

[christina3655]

Two questions based on your wish to have flawless win always...1. what if no one is flawless? 2. You would have a team who does majority single fulls and easier elements beat a team who maxes out most of the scorecard but isnt flawless? IMHO...the scorecard reigns and sometime flawless isnt the best team...they are sometimes the team who watered down the most or the one who is playing it safe....not sure that is the best product to watch.

should u really be performing the skill if its not clean though......?i know i cant hit my double clean ...thats i dont throw it at a competition...because yea i may throw a double but if my technique is bad and i touch down i might as well as not have thrown it because now we have a deduction.....