All-Star Starting A Discussion: The Safety Of Spring Floor Vs... Well.. Anything Else

[King]

the driving force is called being human and always wanting to be better than before. basketball players dont ever go for half court shots as a play, but they still do them at practice, football players do insane tackling drills that theyll never need, & people that are about to age out and are on a level 4 team still try to get their full....

everyone in the world wants to always get better than they were before, people live with no limits, at least that is how I live, no one should let anything get in their way of success.

so you are saying that no matter what all the girls there were going to get fulls in high school for competitive reasons (which is a grand majority I assure you) when they stop allowing those fulls to be competed in high school every single one will continue on with their tumbling aspirations?

 

[coachrah]

the driving force is called being human and always wanting to be better than before. basketball players dont ever go for half court shots as a play, but they still do them at practice, football players do insane tackling drills that theyll never need, & people that are about to age out and are on a level 4 team still try to get their full....

everyone in the world wants to always get better than they were before, people live with no limits, at least that is how I live, no one should let anything get in their way of success.

1. Basketball player's flirting with half court shot drills will not cause catastrophic injury.
2. Football's insane tackling drills are currently under big time scrutiny.
3. No limits by a coach striving for success without regard to rules = risk. The driving force "called being human" when you are coaching humans, requires a duty. As a coach your idea of being better and living with "no limits" is not how everyone else lives and when they do...they need to be prepared for what might become an unintended legal consequence, but more importantly a child at a greater risk.

 

[King]

1. Basketball player's flirting with half court shot drills will not cause catastrophic injury.
2. Football's insane tackling drills are currently under big time scrutiny.
3. No limits by a coach striving for success without regard to rules = risk. The driving force "called being human" when you are coaching humans, requires a duty. As a coach your idea of being better and living with "no limits" is not how everyone else lives and when they do...they need to be prepared for what might become an unintended legal consequence, but more importantly a child at a greater risk.

aww you skipped my large lead in and just answered the question. (hah)

 

[munchkinmom]

how do you enforce that though? have cheer refs at all sporting events? we have already seen illegal stunting being done at a showcase & performed at cheersport, with nothing being done to stop it, how in the world could we prevent anything larger?

You let the community police it. There are cell phone cameras everywhere now. The first step is regulations. Just having a set of rules will pull many people in line. If by nothing else because 1) most (obviously not all) of society follows rules, and 2) this is a dangerous sport using minors in a lawsuit happy country. The next step is an honors system of accountability. The coaches affirm that they follow the rules, and if they don't and are found out, they face sanctions. You can't guarantee you'll catch everyone, but if you don't try at all, you're guaranteed to catch 0. If a team is looking at the very real possibility of a ban from a specific, known, scheduled competition the parents have paid for because the coach is being irresponsible, they're more likely to step in to change it (and have the support of the people who oversee the program) than they would if there's some "vague" possibility that some unknown injury may happen to one of the ~30 girls that may or may not be their daughter for doing one of the dozens of skills done in practice, on one of the 50+ practices a season, maybe.

 

[laughAlittle]

so you are saying that no matter what all the girls there were going to get fulls in high school for competitive reasons (which is a grand majority I assure you) when they stop allowing those fulls to be competed in high school every single one will continue on with their tumbling aspirations?

a high majority will, whats the incentive to stop?

 

[SarahS]

a high majority will, whats the incentive to stop?

The incentive to stop is that it will be against the rules. Girls who want to get fulls (for college tryouts, for example) will have to seek out alternative venues to learn these skills. The ones who are highly motivated to do so will find those other, legal, safe venues. (We don't do fulls at our high school - don't do them, don't teach them. However, some girls have advanced tumbling skills and travel long distances to work with tumbling coaches [on spring floors and tumble tracks] to learn these skills, because they're motivated to learn them for college.) I think a rule prohibiting fulls in high school would be both prudent and welcomed by the majority of coaches and athletes. You can be creative and dynamic and have fun, impressive (and safer) routines without fulls.

 

[King]

a high majority will, whats the incentive to stop?

the fact that you can't use them. how many high school stunt groups do you know that work on rewinds? they aren't legal at all, but i rarely see high schoolers work on them. by your logic they should ALL be working on them. because they want to be great!

 

[King]

a high majority will, whats the incentive to stop?

and really looking into it... the ones who were already on the full path, yeah they will keep working on them. but NOW what is the incentive for the high schooler to dedicate all that time to START doing fulls. the next generation would severely decrease

 

[laughAlittle]

the fact that you can't use them. how many high school stunt groups do you know that work on rewinds? they aren't legal at all, but i rarely see high schoolers work on them. by your logic they should ALL be working on them. because they want to be great!

I see your point, but people see fulls much, much more than rewinds (tv, youtube, competitions). This will make them want to learn one a lot more, whether its at home or at school. Every cheerleader knows what a full is and many see it as a goal for tumbling.

I really dont think there will ever be a way to enforce what youre saying though. Also, its not fair at all to severely limit the things that HS cheerleaders can do. We cant put everyone in big bubbles and have them walking around. Risk is a part of life. If you dont want the risk, dont cheer. Pick up a dance class or go to an allstar gym with a level 1-2 team. No matter what cheerleading will be dangerous, heck crossing the street carries a lot of risk. Should we have police on every corner? People just have to learn to be safe, prepared and trained. Limiting the ability will not do anything for the future. We need to progress, not degress.

 

[laughAlittle]

and really looking into it... the ones who were already on the full path, yeah they will keep working on them. but NOW what is the incentive for the high schooler to dedicate all that time to START doing fulls. the next generation would severely decrease

I dont agree with this, we cannot look into the future though so no one really knows who is right.

 

[King]

I see your point, but people see fulls much, much more than rewinds (tv, youtube, competitions). This will make them want to learn one a lot more, whether its at home or at school. Every cheerleader knows what a full is and many see it as a goal for tumbling.

I really dont think there will ever be a way to enforce what youre saying though. Also, its not fair at all to severely limit the things that HS cheerleaders can do. We cant put everyone in big bubbles and have them walking around. Risk is a part of life. If you dont want the risk, dont cheer. Pick up a dance class or go to an allstar gym with a level 1-2 team. No matter what cheerleading will be dangerous, heck crossing the street carries a lot of risk. Should we have police on every corner? People just have to learn to be safe, prepared and trained. Limiting the ability will not do anything for the future. We need to progress, not degress.

Then what about doubles in high school on hard floor? You'd be fine with opening those up? And, to take it a step farther... what about double backs?

 

[laughAlittle]

The incentive to stop is that it will be against the rules. Girls who want to get fulls (for college tryouts, for example) will have to seek out alternative venues to learn these skills. The ones who are highly motivated to do so will find those other, legal, safe venues. (We don't do fulls at our high school - don't do them, don't teach them. However, some girls have advanced tumbling skills and travel long distances to work with tumbling coaches [on spring floors and tumble tracks] to learn these skills, because they're motivated to learn them for college.) I think a rule prohibiting fulls in high school would be both prudent and welcomed by the majority of coaches and athletes. You can be creative and dynamic and have fun, impressive (and safer) routines without fulls.

Not for the hundreds of teams that have many fulls that are perfectly executed. How can you tell them they can no longer perform fulls because DIFFERENT teams are getting injured trying to do them. That doesnt seem fair to me.

Also, the same can be said to allstar. Ive seen many many routines with poorly executed fulls that resulted in injury. We dont we stop at layouts there as well? They can also be "creative and dynamic and have fun, impressive (and safer) routines without fulls"... right?

 

[laughAlittle]

Then what about doubles in high school on hard floor? You'd be fine with opening those up? And, to take it a step farther... what about double backs?

If someone is dumb enough is try that, they should go for it. If a coach is dumb enough to allow that, go for it. If a parent will be ignorant enough to allow their child to do that, go for it. Its all about risk. If youre willing to be risky, you have to pay the price.

Should we ban skydiving because its dangerous? No, people know what theyre getting themselves into. Same thing as smoking, it says on the pack how dangerous it is, but people still do it and suffer the consequences of the risk involved.

Everyone knows the dangers of trying a double full or back on a hard gym floor, if you wanna do it, you gotta be prepared to pay the price if something goes wrong.

 

[King]

If someone is dumb enough is try that, they should go for it. If a coach is dumb enough to allow that, go for it. If a parent will be ignorant enough to allow their child to do that, go for it. Its all about risk. If youre willing to be risky, you have to pay the price.

Should we ban skydiving because its dangerous? No, people know what theyre getting themselves into. Same thing as smoking, it says on the pack how dangerous it is, but people still do it and suffer the consequences of the risk involved.

Everyone knows the dangers of trying a double full or back on a hard gym floor, if you wanna do it, you gotta be prepared to pay the price if something goes wrong.

So how did you arrive at the educated opinion a full is the right place to stop progression on hard floor?

 

[laughAlittle]

So how did you arrive at the educated opinion a full is the right place to stop progression on hard floor?

I dont understand what youre saying, a full isnt stopping progression on a hard floor.