All-Star Substance Free Programs

[ScottyB]

Some official body has to be in charge if this is to happen, not just the local gym/coach.
It's so frustrating seeing programs (not just cheer) tell their clients they cannot use certain apps on their phone because it promotes bullying, then turn away when bullying is happening in their program.
Or implement a DARE program then have the coaches getting hammered in the bar at the competition.
Or blow off a kid talking about how high they are the day after a party and the coach explains it as they had been sucking helium out of balloons.


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So you are saying coaches and gyms have zero responsibility to their athletes' well being and it falls entirely on a governing body to do that dirty work? And that dirty work is randomly drug testing kids? Seems like on paper it would look great but in actuality wouldn't change much.

This is about culture change from top to bottom. Parents and athletes can no longer blow off the fact that their coach loves to party after competition is over, coaches can't look past athletes coming into the gym not in prime condition, etc etc.

 

[Dixie]

So you are saying coaches and gyms have zero responsibility to their athletes' well being and it falls entirely on a governing body to do that dirty work? And that dirty work is randomly drug testing kids? Seems like on paper it would look great but in actuality wouldn't change much.

This is about culture change from top to bottom. Parents and athletes can no longer blow off the fact that their coach loves to party after competition is over, coaches can't look past athletes coming into the gym not in prime condition, etc etc.

No, I think after years of leaving it solely to the gym/coaches has proven nothing is changing. A governing body random testing and enforcing consequences for negative results would (IMO) force the gyms/coaches to act differently. One globe being passed to the next team due to a positive drug test would cause all kinds of changes in programs.

ETA: I've seen many groups post what is wanted to hear on social media, but the families know nothing will happen if they don't follow the guidelines posted. It makes them look good and hides the dirty little secrets.
In no way do I see this as the majority of kids on drugs. But, the ones doing the right thing shouldn't be punished for doing the right thing. If PED's got you on that team, more kids will see the only way to make that team are to use PED's.
Interesting that we are discussing this while the dealer who provided MLB players with steroids just turned himself in to the police.

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[MissCongeniality]

So you are saying coaches and gyms have zero responsibility to their athletes' well being and it falls entirely on a governing body to do that dirty work? And that dirty work is randomly drug testing kids? Seems like on paper it would look great but in actuality wouldn't change much.

This is about culture change from top to bottom. Parents and athletes can no longer blow off the fact that their coach loves to party after competition is over, coaches can't look past athletes coming into the gym not in prime condition, etc etc.

No, I think what she is saying (and I am saying as well) is that it can't just be left up to just the coaches or just the parents or just the usasf, it requires all parties buy-in and that may very well need to be a top down effort.

Let me use an incident from a few years ago as an example of why it can't "just be coaches". Level 5 team kids arrive at practice at high profile program. It is extremely obvious that one child is under the influence of marijuana, both from smell and actions. Parents all chat amongst themselves in the waiting room and someone brave enough goes to mention it to coach/gym director. Athlete walks out onto the floor for practice. So far nothing being done by coach/gym director. Understandable as we all know that between practices break can be very hectic with parents bombarding questions etc. Practice starts (stretching etc.) and still nothing done. Young child from lower level team complains loudly "ewwwww it smells funny in here! Xyz smells bad!" Coach then steps in sends XYZ off to run and sweat it out for a while grabs a bottle of Lysol and sprays the gym. End of story. No conversation with team about "do not come to practice stoned" ensues...XYZ struts right back into point dance spot. Oh and yes, XYZ and other members of the team continued to get stoned before practice and at comps. They just used Axe/perfume etc. a bit more liberally!

 

[cheerisloving]

there were 34 (found and treated, so probably many more) drug overdoses in New Jersey this weekend at one of those electric music festivals. almost all of the documented overdoses were children under the age of 18. i honestly think it's more of an issue in the senior age bracket than college. college most certainly has drugs present, but i have never seen it this rampant in the high school crowd. scary.

We had one of those festivals here in the DMV area and two kids actually ended up passing away this past weekend. It saddens me that could've been any of my friends who went. I've heard a lot of stories this summer, and seen with my eyes friends get wasted/high in public. It's terrifying as most are girls and they are far from home. These are 'good' kids, and where I'm from the cops have nothing to do but make sure parties are legit and clean, they take these music festivals as a chance to party without fear of getting in trouble. Or worse, some think it's the only way to enjoy the show.

[/QUOTE]we always say nothing will happen until there is a tragedy, but is this girl's death not a tragedy? this was a high profile athlete at one of the best college programs in the country that received national media attention. is it only a relevant tragedy if she seized in the middle of a stunt sequence and dropped a stunt? when suzie's parents try to sue because a high kid dropped her and she got hurt, then will we care?[/QUOTE]

Agree x1000 sometimes us cheer people feel as if things aren't happening on the mat or in practice that it doesn't serve a greater good. None of the press releases talk about all the NCA trophies UL has. No one outside of us know that drugs are a relevant in the sport. In fact I didn't know it was this bad until this thread. Would you really want there to be a tragedy during a cheer related to already ruin the reputation of the sport? At least this way it can not only help the cheer world but other underrepresented sports programs.

 

[ScottyB]

No, I think what she is saying (and I am saying as well) is that it can't just be left up to just the coaches or just the parents or just the usasf, it requires all parties buy-in and that may very well need to be a top down effort.

Let me use an incident from a few years ago as an example of why it can't "just be coaches". Level 5 team kids arrive at practice at high profile program. It is extremely obvious that one child is under the influence of marijuana, both from smell and actions. Parents all chat amongst themselves in the waiting room and someone brave enough goes to mention it to coach/gym director. Athlete walks out onto the floor for practice. So far nothing being done by coach/gym director. Understandable as we all know that between practices break can be very hectic with parents bombarding questions etc. Practice starts (stretching etc.) and still nothing done. Young child from lower level team complains loudly "ewwwww it smells funny in here! Xyz smells bad!" Coach then steps in sends XYZ off to run and sweat it out for a while grabs a bottle of Lysol and sprays the gym. End of story. No conversation with team about "do not come to practice stoned" ensues...XYZ struts right back into point dance spot. Oh and yes, XYZ and other members of the team continued to get stoned before practice and at comps. They just used Axe/perfume etc. a bit more liberally!

We agree on the buy in. But this is not a matter for the USASF to have to deal with.
Parents want a safe environment for their kids? Leave the gym, let the money talk for them. No kids to fill the team, that gym owner is going to feel that in a few weeks.

All i am saying is that every single person must take responsibility and look after one another if something is to change, all parts of the gym/parent/athlete triangle. Education and discussion must be at the forefront, not punishment.

 

[Dixie]

I think we are all in agreement and that's a great place to start.
As for parents taking their kids out and the gym will collapse? I don't see that happening. I had 2 experiences similar to @MissCongeniality. The first time I personally took it to the coach and was poo-poo'd away. The second time I went and got another parent as a witness. Told the front desk and they just rolled their eyes. An owner did talk with me and my daughter about it but made stupid excuses for the behavior. I took my money and left as that was the only power this parent had. I guarantee there were dozens of parents who witnessed the same thing I did and chose to stay. Most, sadly, think it's worth the risk or it won't happen to them. Well it happened to my family so I know it happens to anyone. Guess I'm over-sensitized to it.
Either way it's a great discussion to have. Thanks @BowCat for starting it.


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[SharkDad]

@ScottyB I totally agree that personal responsibility needs to be a cornerstone of change. I have to say you are wrong in what everyone's role is.

It is the purpose of any sport's governing body to ensure a safe environment and credibility for the sport. Anything related to safety is the responsibility of the governing body because leaving them to the teams, gyms, athletes would promote a conflict of interest. In other words each of those teams/gyms/athletes would be prone to interpret rules for their own benefit.

Here is the Mission Statement page for the USASF: US All Star Federation: Mission and History

Notice that safety is mentioned and a focus. "Fair play" is not mentioned at all, but is a byproduct of providing a credible and safe environment for competition.

Gym owners and coaches role is to be leaders within the sport and not accept unsafe behavior in their athletes. Using drugs is not acceptable for nationally competitive athletes or their coaching staffs. This isn't about policing or looking into people's personal lives, but when the behavior is brought to light, there is only one acceptable outcome: it's not allowed and should be NOWHERE near the younger athletes in the sport.

Again, it's the athletes personal responsibility to not use drugs if they want to participate and to not allow any athletes around them use if they want a safe atmosphere on their team.

PEDs is not part of any of this and is a separate discussion.

 

[SharkDad]

Regarding governing bodies taking action, the sad truth is that USASF is the only governing body from any form of cheer. There are small rec governing bodies, but nothing unified, there is no HS governing body, just NFHS and all they do is publish the spirit rules guide (as volunteers), and there is definitely nothing close to a college governing body.

NCAA would be the most appropriate form of enforcement in college, but they already clearly stated they would not accept cheer as a sport while it is fractioned amongst the different rules bodies (NCA and UCA) and run by a corporation that significantly benefits from the sport. The best chance of competitive cheer becoming a new sport with NCAA would be NCATA, which is completely independent, has a single unified competitive system, and is an official varsity sport with the universities that offer it.

 

[SharkDad]

I don't want us to forget the other form of athlete neglect/abuse that was discussed:

For anyone who thinks that flyers need to be 90 lbs and male bases have a hard time with anyone larger:

 

[Daniellerae]

I know I'm a little late to the "drug use at school" discussion, but I just wanted to share what went on at my school last year...
The student section at our football games has always had a few kids who "pregame" before they show up, but last year it seemed like everyone (mostly the seniors) was under the influence of alcohol/weed/oxy whatever. It got so bad that one student fell onto the track from the bleachers and had to go to the trainer because he scraped up his legs on the way down. The administration finally realized what was going on and immediately blamed us (the cheerleaders) of smuggling alcohol into the games because we were the only ones allowed to bring bags into the stadium. Our coach asked us about it and we told her that kids were showing up messed up, and after administration found that out, they were still mad at us for not telling them that sooner.
In short, my graduating class isn't too classy.

 

[SharkDad]

I know I'm a little late to the "drug use at school" discussion, but I just wanted to share what went on at my school last year...
The student section at our football games has always had a few kids who "pregame" before they show up, but last year it seemed like everyone (mostly the seniors) was under the influence of alcohol/weed/oxy whatever. It got so bad that one student fell onto the track from the bleachers and had to go to the trainer because he scraped up his legs on the way down. The administration finally realized what was going on and immediately blamed us (the cheerleaders) of smuggling alcohol into the games because we were the only ones allowed to bring bags into the stadium. Our coach asked us about it and we told her that kids were showing up messed up, and after administration found that out, they were still mad at us for not telling them that sooner.
In short, my graduating class isn't too classy.

There was an important lesson to be learned from your situation.

Blaming your team wasn't it.

This is common at all schools. Teens and college students need to be taught what acceptable ways to handle bad behavior are, not blaming people for not being right 100%


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[ScottyB]

@ScottyB I totally agree that personal responsibility needs to be a cornerstone of change. I have to say you are wrong in what everyone's role is.

It is the purpose of any sport's governing body to ensure a safe environment and credibility for the sport. Anything related to safety is the responsibility of the governing body because leaving them to the teams, gyms, athletes would promote a conflict of interest. In other words each of those teams/gyms/athletes would be prone to interpret rules for their own benefit.

Here is the Mission Statement page for the USASF: US All Star Federation: Mission and History

Notice that safety is mentioned and a focus. "Fair play" is not mentioned at all, but is a byproduct of providing a credible and safe environment for competition.

Gym owners and coaches role is to be leaders within the sport and not accept unsafe behavior in their athletes. Using drugs is not acceptable for nationally competitive athletes or their coaching staffs. This isn't about policing or looking into people's personal lives, but when the behavior is brought to light, there is only one acceptable outcome: it's not allowed and should be NOWHERE near the younger athletes in the sport.

Again, it's the athletes personal responsibility to not use drugs if they want to participate and to not allow any athletes around them use if they want a safe atmosphere on their team.

PEDs is not part of any of this and is a separate discussion.

You are right about all of the above. My thing about it is that the USASF only can reach so far. Meaning that they can't be there in every gym to administer pee tests or have the ability to collect monthly hair follicle samples from athletes across the country and have them tested. They really only have control at Worlds which they could and have every right to test every athlete.

The problem with that being, is it only creates a period of 2 weeks where they can, to quote their mission statement "strive for a safe environment for our athletes." Otherwise the only option available is to monitor and police owners and coaches for the other 50 weeks a year.

Now the USASF could create an anonymous reporting tool for concerned parents, athletes, coaches to alert the USASF to problematic areas so action could be taken after investigation. But that gets into a big he-said she-said.

If anything the USASF should be focused on education and discussion with young athletes about the dangers of drugs and alcohol, and the even worse dangers of mixing them with cheerleading. Then engaging the gym owners and coaches to spread the prevention knowledge

 

[SharkDad]

All of this is true. It's never realistic to imply that a governing body can hope for 100% testing or enforcement.

It is also not realistic to imply that anyone can accuse. There has to be limits and it has to be rationale.

I think a realistic method would be that USASF has the authority to enforce safe competition of athletes anytime an athlete is at a USASF sanctioned event and they are competing for a Worlds Bid. With that, they can require random testing of any athlete on one of these teams at any of the bid competitions in the event where they are actually competing for a bid as a condition of earning the bid. In addition they can random test at Worlds.

This would reinforce the safety and credibility of the competition itself. More importantly it will promote the safety of all our athletes.

To be clear, I am a member of the USAF Parent Advisory Committee so I can communicate these ideas, but I have no rulemaking or decision making authority. This is all just open discussion, but I intend to bring it up the next time I can with members of the board.

 

[coachrah]

Yes, they have safety in mind. But the responsibility to watch for under the influence athletes practicing or competing is not their job. That is up to the coaches, gym owners, parents, peers.

If a coach is unaware that an athlete is performing under the influence, that is on them, not the USASF. The coach is there for the athletes' growth and well being. Coaches and gyms must lead by example, make the rules, and enforce them.

At the most the USASF could enact at D.A.R.E. type program and policy to get gyms and athletes to commit to healthy, safe, and sober environments.

What??? If the coach is "unaware" as you stated...HOW can they do ANYTHING about it? Coaches are sometimes the last to know. The NCAA and governing bodies drug test for BOTH safety and fair play. To put that liability on coaches who cannot possibly be privvy to every athlete's bad decision is one reason why drug testing has evolved in sports . The AAU, as stated in an earlier post does drug test for wrestling and are more than likely working with WADA (World Anti Doping Agency). To suggest to people that it is solely the responsibility of a coach or parent to know every move and that a sanctioning organization has no recourse is unfair to all parties as they can apply for insurance as a governing body that asks specific questions on drug testing, background checks and more. Their questions are extensive: www.amerspec.com/applications/amateur/ngb_app.doc

There are organizations that assist programs in developing strategies: Overview - The National Center For Drug Free Sport, Inc. -

 

[coachrah]

You are right about all of the above. My thing about it is that the USASF only can reach so far. Meaning that they can't be there in every gym to administer pee tests or have the ability to collect monthly hair follicle samples from athletes across the country and have them tested. They really only have control at Worlds which they could and have every right to test every athlete.

The problem with that being, is it only creates a period of 2 weeks where they can, to quote their mission statement "strive for a safe environment for our athletes." Otherwise the only option available is to monitor and police owners and coaches for the other 50 weeks a year.

Now the USASF could create an anonymous reporting tool for concerned parents, athletes, coaches to alert the USASF to problematic areas so action could be taken after investigation. But that gets into a big he-said she-said.

If anything the USASF should be focused on education and discussion with young athletes about the dangers of drugs and alcohol, and the even worse dangers of mixing them with cheerleading. Then engaging the gym owners and coaches to spread the prevention knowledge

Why do they only have control at Worlds?